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Cel Shading Plugin

L

Lc3

New member
I am the only one who thinks it would be really cool to have a Cel-shading plugin, so we can play Zelda 64 in cel shading and tell ourselves its Gamecube Zelda, ok so we wont belive it and its nowhere near as good as the real thing but it would be the best thing posable in the run up to the relise. Am I made or does anyone agree with me?

The new Zelda is gunna be cool!!

Edit: just because i only have 6 posts and post stupid (and misspelled) questions, it doesnt mean i desive any less respect so please be nice.
 
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OP
L

Lc3

New member
Why not? They were able to do indipendant Anit-alizing; proving that they are in control over the rendering of the polygons, just dont render them but instead render using cel-shading. All that would be changed is the graphical output which IS (I belive) already controled by a plug-in. Am i right?

Just want to re-itterate that it would NOT look like the new 'Celda' game, it would just be cel-shading though. My relatively rubish 3D accelerator (its a Kyro, not some super-NVidia card) can do cel-shading as shown in a demop that comes with the thing. So it could be done hardware accelerated too.

Its not imposable is it?
 
thecraft

thecraft

Alice in Chains Fan
I have been thinking about it a lot too, and I say it IS possible. But just don't expect much more the 20-30FPS. Although I can only program with INI's, All you have to do is set a filter to apply cel shading to the graphics output just before being processed.

BTW: I seen the E3 Trailer, it looks pretty awsome
 
thecraft

thecraft

Alice in Chains Fan
A filter (I think) that makes the graphics looks like a 3D Cartoon! It's a pretty sweet effect.
 
OP
L

Lc3

New member
"Go Away!" is not an opinion.

Anyway, see, people are agreeing with me, it is posable. I relise that if it was done, version 1 of the plugin might suck, the next version a little better and so on. Has anyone started working on one? If not, I am honestly surprised, not like its a unique idea, its kinda ovoiusly something that would be good. Can anyone here do it? Who makes the plugins for pj64?

Edit: note about the framerate, 20~30 fps sounds like my framerate for SSB on default settings, if i turn the res to minimum i get 60. Mabye that would help, a little, if it had that problem. It shouldnt be too slow if it can be done with hardware acceleration (as i mentioned, that can be done, ive seen it in a demo that came with my NON-1337 3d acc. card)
 
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Doomulation

Doomulation

?????????????????????????
Lc3 said:
"Go Away!" is not an opinion.

Anyway, see, people are agreeing with me, it is posable. I relise that if it was done, version 1 of the plugin might suck, the next version a little better and so on. Has anyone started working on one? If not, I am honestly surprised, not like its a unique idea, its kinda ovoiusly something that would be good. Can anyone here do it? Who makes the plugins for pj64?

Edit: note about the framerate, 20~30 fps sounds like my framerate for SSB on default settings, if i turn the res to minimum i get 60. Mabye that would help, a little, if it had that problem. It shouldnt be too slow if it can be done with hardware acceleration (as i mentioned, that can be done, ive seen it in a demo that came with my NON-1337 3d acc. card)
Click to expand...
Drop it. No one is probably gonna do one.
Even if there was more than one who'd like it, i bet no plugin author'd do it.
And why i said "go away", is because i hate cell shading, and alas, i hate the whole idea you're bringing up.
 
Smiff

Smiff

Emutalk Member
Doom, don't tell someone to go away because you don't like their idea. This is not an obviously stupid idea IMHO. The problem is that you wouldn't have enough understanding of the game (you don't have any at all - it's an emulator) to keep it playable, it might work for some simple games but something as complex as Zelda would have too many issues. A dumb post-processing filter would not be that hard to do but you wouldn't like the results, also since you'd be rendering in hardware 3d first and applying a 2d post-processing, the system requirement would only be _higher_.
 
Smiff

Smiff

Emutalk Member
Actually on 2nd thoughts its worse than that, you'd have to read the buffer back into system memory to apply the 2d process, and sent the result (2d) back to the card with ddraw... it would be like the current situation with CFB emulation..... horribly slow. Alternative is full software render with cell-shader... yah good luck.
 
sytaylor

sytaylor

Sy
my god man... i think he understands this emulator stuffs!

/me bows, impressive answer meeeeeeeister, im certain there was an in depth converstation about cel shading involving rattrap around these parts a month or so ago... having words with him could clear things up, seemed to know what he was yabbering about (if it was him, im not certain now, my heads gona all a fluster)
 
thecraft

thecraft

Alice in Chains Fan
Your Reply, Smiff is giving me some 2nd thoughts there, kinda of like trying to get a Voxel Engine (1 and 2) to run Perfect Dark :) . But like I said, I don't know much how these emulator really do work. All I know is they convert N64 Data using an Interpeter or Recompiler to where the PC can read the data. And I'm not even sure that's correct.
 
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Smiff

Smiff

Emutalk Member
yah wait sorry i think i misunderstood what you meant by cell shader... i assumed youd be rendering the scene first, instead you would probably build it from the geometry.. dunno id need to think about how the cell shader would work. If you're saying the card has support for cell shading then there's no speed prob, but it would have to be a dumb/passive process.

As sytaylor says this has no doubt progressed beyond these basic thoughts somewhere else.
 
thecraft

thecraft

Alice in Chains Fan
Well, I mean't that the Cel Shader plugin could act like a DSP, it adds the shading right before the image leaves the vid. card.
Go ahead, call that idea stupid if ya want.
 
Doomulation

Doomulation

?????????????????????????
Who would take time to work on it anyway?
It's still a stupid idea IMO, but the prob is that i don't think anyone would take up the job on doing one.

The plugin authors are working on other things.
 
N-Rage

N-Rage

New member
AKAIK Cellshading is done by modifiing lightning to be only affecting the edges of models, the rest of the surface will be the same gradient. Since N64-Games use custom lighting it would be hard to implement it for all games to work( maybe a own implementation for each U-Code, but i dunt know for sure )
Speaking for myself I hope Cellshading dies out as fast as it came up.
 
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zorbid

zorbid

New member
Here is the method that RatTrap explained in TotT, but with more details.

http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/features/celshading/

You can find 2 demos on the third page. The first uses vertex shaders (I can't test it), the uses second the method described in the tutorial. It's fast (at least for these simple models), but it doesn't look that good IMO(the picture below comes from that demo).

Even if it is technically possible to make it I fear that most the 3d "models" of the n64 games don't have enough polygons to make the result look ok.
 
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sytaylor

sytaylor

Sy
a very good point.. since the overll effect is quite blurred... for detail you need yet more polys in a scene... worked well for jet et radio though

from the url zorbid posted...

For all those people who couldn't care less for theory, here's what you need to do.

1. Create a Sharp Lighting map.
2. Calculate and store the dot product between the normal and the lighting direction.
3. Disable lighting and blending.
4. Enable texturing.
5. Set the current texture to the light map.
6. Draw the polygons, specifying only the texture coordinate, color, and vertex positions.
Click to expand...
 
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