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What do you guys think of StrmnNrmn's efforts?

Allnatural

Allnatural

New member
Moderator
If you haven't already seen the news at Emulation64, check out the Daedalus homepage.

LLE graphics.:colgate: Sounds interesting, even if my system isn't up to the task. Good luck StrmnNrmn.:)
 
Remote

Remote

Active member
Moderator
Slougi said:
Hmm what does this mean in practice? All gfx effects etc. would be emulated?
Click to expand...

Perhaps someone with insight could give us a brief overview of pros and cons with the LLE approach.
 
pj64er

pj64er

PJ64 Lubba
Remote said:


Perhaps someone with insight could give us a brief overview of pros and cons with the LLE approach.
Click to expand...

im no expert, but LLE should get u (or try to) exactly what u would see on the n64. So bells and whistles (higher res, FSAA, texture filtering) would be sacrificed for (near perfect to perfect)accuracy.
 
OP
Allnatural

Allnatural

New member
Moderator
Remote said:


Perhaps someone with insight could give us a brief overview of pros and cons with the LLE approach.
Click to expand...
Here is something Lewpy posted over at NGemu when someone brought up the subject of HLE and PSX emulation:
Okay, let's try and clear this up


HLE - High Level Emulation

A technique used to emulate a system, or part of a system, by simulating the software API calls that the program makes.


LLE - Low Level Emulation

A technique used to emulate a system, or part of a system, by simulating the hardware registers that a program accesses.


What HLE does is it scans a program and "hooks" the standard API calls that a program is using (because it is designed using a standard development library, so the API calls are standard across many games). By doing this, it doesn't actually have to fully emulate the hardware in the system, and also has access to the program data before it gets mangled by any actually hardware device in the system.

LLE emulates the system at a register level, so is almost exactly the same as the system being emulated. This also means it suffers from any limitations of the system being emulated. In the case of the PSX, this means it has non-perspective correct texturing, no zbuffering, 3D engine glitches, etc.

All PSX emulator plugins that use the PSEmu Pro plugin interfaces are LLE components, because they operate at the register level of the devices they are emulating. The fact that they subsequently call D3D, OpenGL, Glide, etc. afterwards to display the data afterwards is irrelevant.

N64 lends itself very well (from what I have read) to HLE techniques, because most of the developers use[d] standard Nintendo libraries to develop their games, so used a common API for accessing the various system blocks (graphics, sound, etc.)

PSX doesn't lend itself to HLE very well, because most games are written using proprietary libraries, so that the performance of the system is maximised. I doubt there are many developers that used exactly the same libraries on multiple games.

Most emulators that use HLE only use it in part of the system. Most rely on LLE emulation of core operations, such as the CPU.

Full HLE is in effect porting an entire game from one platform to another (such as FF7 on PSX and PC): the executed code has absolutely nothing to do with the original platform code, and even the data structures are changed to optimise them for the target platform.

In theory, this is possible for a real-time emulator to do.
Practically, I don't think you will ever see such an emulator
Click to expand...
You can read the whole thread here if you're interested.
 
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pj64er

pj64er

PJ64 Lubba
Martin said:


Yes, we're hosting the official Nemu64 forum. Check www.nemu.com

:donzingof
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Martin, ur missing his point.

ur hosting Nemu's forum, not its homepage. yet, just earlier on this thread, u said ur reason for not having a daedalus forum is that ur not hosting its homepage.
 
Ogy

Ogy

3Dfx Fanatic.
no he didn't. he meant the forum, as i understood.

CyRUS64 is hosting the daedalus site AND forum.
 
zorbid

zorbid

New member
confusion + confusion = misunderstanding...

My point was: If I remember well, there was a Nemu forum here before it became official. I'm not sure though.

If I'm right about this, the fact that emu64 isn't hosting deadalus isn't a reason for not having a deadalus forum here (as there was a nemu forum).

If I'm wrong, forget I ever posted about this. :plain: :blush:

Furthermore, I don't think there is a need for a deadalus forum here. It would be most of the time boring and not usefull, as the authors are on their own board.
 
Martin

Martin

Active member
Administrator
ur hosting Nemu's forum, not its homepage. yet, just earlier on this thread, u said ur reason for not having a daedalus forum is that ur not hosting its homepage.
Click to expand...

Well, hosting in any form. The reason there's a Nemu64 board, is because we're hosting it. Ogy is correct.

My point was: If I remember well, there was a Nemu forum here before it became official. I'm not sure though.
Click to expand...

Yes, there was. And there's a reason for that as well. :p. We used to host a site called Nemuzone (Gorxon's site) and therefore we had a Nemuzone board. Gorxon stopped working on the site, and we simply renamed the board to "Nemu64". Same goes for our Corn board (that I removed some days ago, R.I.P.), we hosted a Corn site.

I'm not saying that we need to host an official site just to put up a board, but if I feel the board won't get used or there's already an official board, I won't create one. :)
 
flow``

flow``

flow``
i agree with martin. we could easily throw up a daedalus board in 2 seconds, but the fact is. we really dont need it. the "official" board is usually the best place to get direct feedback from the authors, or people closely related with the project. i think by putting up a daedalus board, we might hamper daedalus's effort to have direct feedback that they can moderate on their board. Strmn/cyrus64 dont need or want to check 3-4 boards and see what people have to say and try to remember stuff from each of them.

if you care to discuss deadalus, then there would be no reason you wouldnt want to to it at their boards anyway, which are easy to use and which cyrus64/strmn visit.

also.. we created a "general n64 emulation" board for the emu's we dont have an official board for; like ultrahle, trwin, daedalus, project unreality, and all the others.
 
pj64er

pj64er

PJ64 Lubba
...ok, so he meant otherwise.

anyway, is n64 LLE gfx even practical with our current technology?
 
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B

Blade64

Guest
I was wondering - effectivly LLE could be 95% compatible VERY quickly (If you have a 2.5GHz machine). So it won't be long before we see an advanced version of this emulator in action!!!
Would I be wrong?
 
Doomulation

Doomulation

?????????????????????????
Hmmm, I wouldn't think so.
But for what I understand from LLE, it's much easier to emulate (well, kinda), and it's smaller than HLE.
 
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