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Low fps in Zelda MM; fix?!

Jenslyn87

New member
I have Project 64 1.6 with the plugins that came along with it (for graphics Jabo's direct 3d 1.6). I'm currently playing through Zelda: MM, but even though it does function and actually works pretty well, I hope I can improve the experience!

My frame rate is at a steady 16-17 fps (at least it's steady, it wasn't at my game cube version of the game). However, I think I read somewhere at the boards that you could emulate the game with like constantly 50 fps or something. My guess is that the low fps are due to the fact that the game was originally a game for the television, thus the fps would suit the TV, but if you could boost them on the PC it would make the game look much better I think...

Is there anything I can do to fix this? A plugin? something? Thanks in advance :)
 

Agozer

16-bit Corpse | Moderator
60fps (60Hz) for NTSC-U and NTSC-J 50fps (50Hz) for PAL is the intended framerate for all console games.

Post computer specs and your graphics card please.
 
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Jenslyn87

New member
Well that shouldn't be a limiting factor (also note that the frames per sec are CONSTANT, not jumping).

3 GHz P4 Hyper threating
1024MB DDR3200 ram
Radeon x800 256MB

Before the game actually starts the framerate says 50?? When I enter Zelda (you know within the game, where I can move link and stuff) it drops to a constant of 16-17 fps. It doesn't matter if I'm looking directly into a wall or standing a place where I can see a far distance ahead and stuff is going on in front of me.

Personally, I was thinking maybe it's because that is the framerate that the game was designed for and therefore i couldn't be changed, but I just hoped :)
 

Agozer

16-bit Corpse | Moderator
16-17 fps isn't the intended framerate. I believe that you have the PAL version, so the speed should be a constant 50fps. However, your scomputer is more than capable of handling N64 emulation at full speed; why it drops framerate so much, I don't really know.
 
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Jenslyn87

New member
Oh, just noticed something! In the lower right corner of the screen the an fps-thingie is showing. There, it a constant of 49-50 fps is displayed while my fraps is saying 16-17. I'm thinking this is because fraps is showing the REAL intended fps that the game is running while the thing in the lower right corner is just showing how much it would be running if it could... Sorry English is not my mother tongue so I'm having a hard time explaining this, hope you get where I'm coming from though :)

Sounds reasonable?
 

Agozer

16-bit Corpse | Moderator
So the emulator actually runs at the correct speed, but FRAPS shows different? I'd suggest you keep looking at the numbers the emulator gies you, not the ones that FRAPS gives you.
 
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Jenslyn87

New member
Hmmm... But you know a television doesn't have a high framerate so couldn't that explain it? I mean it's not like your games run totally smooth? When you play Zelda on the nintendo 64, you know you're playing on a television because the game isn't running as smooth as a normal PC game... If you know what I mean. I just thought maybe the PC wasn't able to increase the framerate beyond what the television could actually show
 

Clements

Active member
Moderator
In-game FPS is exactly 20fps in Majora's Mask for NTSC and 16-17fps for PAL. FRAPS is correct. That is the exact fps that occured on the real system and cannot be changed.

The N64 could not handle MM @ 60 fps, nor could it with most N64 games. Only a few actually did. The framerate is variable too, sometimes even variable in-game (such as Goldeneye).

50/60 is the V/Is value which does not correspond to actual framerate at all.
 
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Jenslyn87

New member
(Didn't see your reply from before until now)

You're probably right, maybe I should just look at what the emulator tells me. I just hoped I could get the game to actually function at far more fps than it would on the television by emulating it, but I guess it isn't possible... At least it looks like the same framerate as it did on the TV. It's not like it's bad or anything, but it would be cool :)
 
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Jenslyn87

New member
Ooooh, I see now, clements, that's why :) Then it all makes sense...

It's not like it would make that much of a difference, but can I get the NTSC version somewhere then to work on my emulator? I'm a bit of a perfectionist so those last fps would be nice :)
 

Clements

Active member
Moderator
NTSC version would be smoother. It is generally recommended to use the NTSC version if at all possible. PAL is only useful for additional languages for those who cannot read English and don't mind the lower framerate.
 
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Jenslyn87

New member
(It wouldn't be illegal to supply me with a NTSC version since I have the original, if it matters I can even take a picture of me with the CD :p)

I basically just found what must be the PAL version on Bearshare since it must be legal for me anyway. I just don't know how to find the NTSC version
 
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Jenslyn87

New member
Oh, no need to help more anyway, found it myself :D

It does indeed work smoother with a constant fps of 20. Simply GREAT! Loves it :D

Now I'll be able to play the game thorough again for the first time in several years, yay! (the version for my gamecube for some reason worked very bad, constant slowdowns and crashes).

Thanks for all your help, it doesn't get any better than this!
 

squall_leonhart

The Great Gunblade Wielder
you sure about that clements?

if it was running at 17fps im pretty sure you would get double screens...

i dunno that much about nintendo hardware but i know that for a picture on a tv to appear smooth it needs to be atleast 25fps for pal and 29.9 for NTSC.

i run pal roms myself and they are smooth.

its only when the rom has been hacked to another region code and tv setting does it appear slow.
 
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Jenslyn87

New member
Squall:

Try with fraps! Just google the program; it's free. Then you can see what fps you are actually running in the game just like me :)
 

squall_leonhart

The Great Gunblade Wielder
i have retail version

ok. firstly. Fraps won't count it properly due the rendering method used.

N64 rendering is different to PC rendering.

the FPS at the bottom of PJ64 is correct. FRAPS reads that as half becoz of the way the screen is drawn.

i found that out awhile ago.

i checked epsxe out and fraps sees it run at the same as the internal fps counter. so its nothing to do with NTSC and Pal being 17fps and whatever...

i'll pull some futher information up on it in a while

although if clements is correct, it would explain why Goldeneye plays so like crap in some points on the original hardware

to smooth things out disable the frame limiter and just synch the game to audio.
 
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Clements

Active member
Moderator
squall_leonhart said:
if it was running at 17fps im pretty sure you would get double screens...

Do you get double screens when the framerate dips in Goldeneye on the real system? Nope. N64's Framerate is unrelated to TV refresh rates or what arbitrary framerates movies or films are recorded at.
 

squall_leonhart

The Great Gunblade Wielder
nope you don't, it just slows down.. iv'e even noticed sometimes it crashes the system. :| must be the cart version.
 
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Jenslyn87

New member
Okay... it's odd, however, that I can feel the difference between the 16 fps of the PAL version I have and the 20 of the NTSC version, then. I've played so many games I can can pretty accuratly judge with how many fps they are running, and I think the numbers are very reasonable. Just saying :)

Also, my fraps doesn't show half the fps of what the emulator shows like it should according to your theory.

Oh well, time to go to sleep. Good to know that I'll have close-to-new zelda experience to wake up to, since its so long ago since I played majora. Guess it doesn't quite match Ocarina of Time (which I've just completed on my gamecube), but it's certainly still a game of epic proportions and well worth of the Zelda title :)

Sleep well when you get that far!
 

squall_leonhart

The Great Gunblade Wielder
well whats happening is that fraps is telling you how fast the video is being rendered. and pj64 is telling you how fast the image is getting shown on screen.
 

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