OSx86

[Hexidecimal]

I'm not sure if anyone here is going to find this interesting or not, but it's technology related so I'm going to post my results.

At work we have an iMac, I've been playing with and enjoying OS X for the most part and had toyed with the idea of getting a cheap iMac on ebay. I decided not to because I don't really have a use for it or the room. So I went back seeking other options. I remembered hearing that OS X for the x86 architechture had been hacked when it first came out with hit or miss results. I looked into it at www.osx86project.org and sifted through the forums and the wiki to see what the best things for me to do would be, after a couple of days, this is my result:

http://home.comcast.net/~jebbeck/Picture_2.png

I'm up and running with internet access, no sound though. I've ordered a new 50 dollar Intel Socket 478 board that everything is supported by OSx86. It should be here friday. I found it interesting to be able to run a MAC os on a Windows box. Thought you guys might too.

Edit: This is being done on an ABIT VT7 Motheboard, Pentium 4 2.2 Gig Northwood, 80 gig Seagate Hard drive and a PCI GeForce2 MX 64 meg. The new Board is a Gigabyte, that the wiki has stated has full support.

[t0rek]

It would be better to buy an Intel based Mac and use the still BETA "Boot Camp" software. That way you don't have to worry about using OS X, and you can use Windows XP too in a very easy way

[Hexidecimal]

50 dollar motherboard vs 500 dollar mac. I'll just put up with it :P

[Dysprosium]

It would be better to buy an Intel based Mac and use the still BETA "Boot Camp" software. That way you don't have to worry about using OS X, and you can use Windows XP too in a very easy way
Isn't Boot Camp fairly demanding on the hardware as of yet? I'd recommend waiting for it anyway, to see how it all turns out later.

I might look into this though. I've been wanting to try out Macintosh for a while. Thanks!

[zAlbee]

Personally, I don't understand why anyone would want MacOS X on an x86 box or Windows on a Mac box. There's nothing I like about the OS - you can only use a "pretty" OS for so long before you get bored of it - and there's nothing superior about Mac hardware. So... lose-lose.

[Jakob]

There's also nothing superior about a windows boxes' hardware either, and windows is a buggy and outdated kludge attempt at a modern operating system(yes I know unix isn't exactly modern either, but the model is more relevant now than single user models ever were)

As to osx being only a pretty OS, under the surface, OSX is POSIX complient unix environment, which can more than fulfill the requirements of a real "power user" but probably not your average script kiddie

[Hexidecimal]

The only thing you can't do in OS X is game. There are ports of everything else, and it's frigging fast. Insanely Fast.

[LazerTag]

Any further thoughts now that you have been playing with it?


I think I may attempt an install as well for fun.

[Miretank]

*Hexidemal is now known as OSXFanboy








:P
Joking, and it looks very cool indeed.

[TerraPhantm]

I played around with OSX86 back when the first leaks were out, it was pretty good, but it wasn't complete enough to be used 24/7. I'm currently "aquiring" 10.4.5 and am hoping for some nice results.

[Flash]

There's also nothing superior about a windows boxes' hardware either, and windows is a buggy and outdated kludge attempt at a modern operating system
Man, who designed that registry thing deserves to be kicked at least once by every windoze user on Earth. Since first computer with disk drive there was config files, text ones (DOS, unix etc.) or binary ones (classic MacOS preferences) but it was just files in directory, more of them - less disk space, that's all. Then bright idea comes - merge all of them in one binary file which is also loaded to RAM. More programs installed - bigger the file, less RAM available, search inside this file also slower and slower. More users ? Bigger the file. One year and your system crawls like one-legged turtle. Nice...
And what if that file becomes corrupted. Boom! No way to recover your system, you need to reinstall system and 90% of software (with little exception of Quake 3, UTx, emulators and some other "serious" stuff.

To install software you need to have admin rights. To use many (if not most) programs you need to have admin rights. 90% Windows users work as admin. In M$ they call it "security".

In any OS except windoze i can use net w/o antivirus i can go to favorite site right after installation. Now we just have windoze installation disk and no antivirus ? What can we do ?
Use the net and get free one, like avast. But... while downloading we got lot's of trojans...
Got laptop with WiFi ? Installed Windows ? Thanks. You just said "hack me" :D
This is the OS of 90% of computer users on this planet. And it's not free. Planet of Masochists indeed :D




As to osx being only a pretty OS, under the surface, OSX is POSIX complient unix environment, which can more than fulfill the requirements of a real "power user" but probably not your average script kiddie
Yep. its BSD with awesome GUI, but bash, mc, X and whatever is here, you can use ports (DarwinPorts).

[Blacklord]

I say it's a pain to change to mac after running windows your whole life. Sure macs are better but i'd use windows any day. I say that it's macs fault that windows is so shitty :P. I mean think about it, people loved mac for it's looks mostly but it wasn't only the looks(something most people don't get). So windows instead of minding their own business and continued work on the XP(which could have easily surpassed mac) acted like friggin idiots and made another os which is made only to look good and virtually nothing else due to their incapability to see that style wasn't the only thing mac had to offer. Windows is going down right now and they don't seem to notice.

Conclusion: I think mac set windows up XD

[Alchemist]

I would say it's a joy to switch to MAC after using windows.

[ScottJC]

I just enjoy how everyone bashes windows but 90% of the ones who do it can't live without it, hypocrites. As for OSX being insanely fast - so is my XP box, windows is only slow if you don't know how to maintain it properly. Linux or OSX can easily become utter trash within weeks if I used it with total disregard for how it ran or operated - hey i'll install this that and the other... bleh. Also doesn't matter how much bashing of windows you do, its not going to go away so get used to it.

"Windows" shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread for that matter, what has windows got to do with OSX? can't you mention an OS without Windows being brought into it... I could start a thread about linux and the person who posts after me will mention windows - thats totally retarded. It's also like If I mentioned that I've got an Intel processor everyone would attack me directly by responding with "Get AMD". Choose your own damn OS and get a life and stop moaning and bitching about how much you hate things. This thread went from an interesting discussion about OSX to an OS war in only a few posts and thats how sad this crap gets.

That plus I enjoy playing devils advocate. ;)

[Blacklord]

Gimme a break. Of course it's the ones who use windows that complain about it couse we got experience. We ain't some dumbases who switch to a OS use it a week or two and say it's super cool or bullshit. It took us a long time to learn every single detail about an OS. If i would change to mac right now i'd be a freaking n00b and would be on the internet every single second searching what everything does, and having to call experts and all that shit and make myself a fool of. And i speak here in the name of all Windows users which complain but which will not change.

As for why windows is mentioned in every thread is one of the most retarded questions of all of them. I mean wtf? 1/3 of the populaton of the friggin earth use windows(if not more). A thread about a OS without Windows being broght into the disscusion would be a miracle.

[ScottJC]

Blacklord, it may be hard for you to understand being around the age of 12 (which is how you act) but you are not the only one that I was putting that message accross to.

Also 1/3? try 98%. People like us are a minority - we actually know how to use our machines, the majority go into PC World or Compusa (I think) and buy the thing that the salesman suggests (which also happens to be very expensive). Skree... Only reason i'm nitpicking is because what started out as an OSX thread changed into an XP comparison in only a few posts.

Now if that was the original point of the thread, then you go right ahead and continue it my friend... godspeed :D

[BoggyB]

In any OS except windoze i can use net w/o antivirus i can go to favorite site right after installation. Now we just have windoze installation disk and no antivirus ? What can we do ?
I'd like to point out that I have used a Windows computer on the internet with no firewall or antivirus whatsoever, and been confident that the computer was sufficiently secured.

I also have at times had publicly available services available on Windows machines (up to and including full remote access), and been perfectly confident that an attacker won't get in easily (barring compromising another of my systems, in which case all bets are off anyway).

It just requires some skill and knowledge of how to secure things.

[Miretank]

Ah, I'll deskmod my Windows to get Mac look, alright? :P

[Blacklord]

Blacklord, it may be hard for you to understand being around the age of 12 (which is how you act) but you are not the only one that I was putting that message accross to.

Also 1/3? try 98%. People like us are a minority - we actually know how to use our machines, the majority go into PC World or Compusa (I think) and buy the thing that the salesman suggests (which also happens to be very expensive). Skree... Only reason i'm nitpicking is because what started out as an OSX thread changed into an XP comparison in only a few posts.

Now if that was the original point of the thread, then you go right ahead and continue it my friend... godspeed :D

Sure i agree with that. But i'll say this is one of them "is shit the same thing as crap" posts and will pretend like i didn't read it. Otherwise i understand ur point (never said i didn't). And it changed to a XP comparison becouse (AND READ THIS VERY CLEARLY): No one ever demonstated which is better and it is a constant debate as to which is better tho this a imposible question becouse it depends on the user/buyer but people will use every chance to start a flare about which is better.

[Hexidecimal]

Well, as I can see the debate circle, I will add my 2 cents.

Having now gone through a week or so of OSx86, I ordered myself a new socket 478 motherboard so I had audio USB etc. I've installed OSx86 about half a dozen times on a couple systems to test it out. I enjoy it. I'm posting an updated screen at the bottom of this post.

In all fairness, it isn't as quick as it should be on my secondary rig, mainly because I'm using garbage ram, and a processor that doesn't support SSE3 (which i hope to change next week). I'm on it here at work with a gig of decent ram and a P4 3.0E and it flies along nicely.

What you all should understand is, this is more or less a way for me to use the second system i have at home to the extent it actually gets used. I have nothing against windows, and i don't believe I ever said I do have anything against it. You can see in my sig the main rig i use is ONLY xp, becuase it's a gaming rig. It's fast, (though it is in need of a format ATM) and I like it, I just need a change as far as an OS goes. When you get down to it, windows is boring. It's just plain boring, and there are STILL a lot of things wrong with it, it's clunky, and the registry is a complete nightmare if you don't know how to tune it properly. (Which, yes, I do, I'm a computer technician, I do it every single day.)

OS X is just plain nice, theres nothing not to like about it, and I used to be in the I HATE MACS camp. All I can honestly say is, before you disregard it, try it yourself. You may learn something (like that the dock is the best idea. ever.) It's a lot cleaner then windows, and installing programs is insanely simple, (drag into applications folder, done) and its streamlined. Some people may mock it for its simplicity, i know i used to, but theres an elegance in how simple it actually is.

I also use my secondary rig for Ubuntu 5.10, it dual boots them both, this is more or less a way for me to learn all 3 OS' and be proficient with them and not be a close minded idiot anymore. There are other options out there people, and OS X has a lot of things right that windows has needed for a long time. Just try it, you may like it.

I also think this thread has proven that most windows users have what I call Macaphobia. It's a lot like Homophobia, where in, they are petrified of what they don't understand, and shun it. It also proves Blacklord has no idea what the hell he's talking about :P.

@LazerTag

Having used it a week, if you have a motherboard that supports what you need, (ethernet!) or can get your hands on supported hardware, I say go for it. It's nice, really nice.

Anyways, new desktop, with lots of OS X software in the dock.

[Alchemist]

How did you get a hold of this OSx86? I'm interested in giving it a try.

[Hexidecimal]

*cough* Torrent *cough*

Uh.. <_< >_> I mean, I bought OS X and then patched it myself with the help of the wonderful people at www.osx86project.org

[Miretank]

Uh.. <_< >_> I mean, I bought OS X and then patched it myself with the help of the wonderful people at www.osx86project.org
Woo, how nice from your part :)
(:P)

[Blacklord]

I also think this thread has proven that most windows users have what I call Macaphobia. It's a lot like Homophobia, where in, they are petrified of what they don't understand, and shun it. It also proves Blacklord has no idea what the hell he's talking about :P.


XD Dirrect hit.

[zAlbee]

As to osx being only a pretty OS, under the surface, OSX is POSIX complient unix environment, which can more than fulfill the requirements of a real "power user" but probably not your average script kiddie

You're right, I actually forgot about that part. Which is kind of stupid of me, since I know several computing-oriented people who have gotten OS X machines for this purpose, and at LEAST three profs. Most recently though, I've only been using the OS X machines of a couple friends who AREN'T programmers, and that's probably why. Consider my previous post only judging the system on its user interface - a highly overrated one IMO.


OS X is just plain nice, theres nothing not to like about it, and I used to be in the I HATE MACS camp. All I can honestly say is, before you disregard it, try it yourself. You may learn something (like that the dock is the best idea. ever.) It's a lot cleaner then windows, and installing programs is insanely simple, (drag into applications folder, done) and its streamlined. Some people may mock it for its simplicity, i know i used to, but theres an elegance in how simple it actually is.

Well... you know those screenshots of Windows desktops that have zillions of desktop icons and taskbars items? I've seen it on OS X too and it's not elegant anymore :P. Possibly worse since there's no text label, only images, but maybe I'm just not used to looking for one tiny window when there are 20 open windows that look extremely similar. Also I don't think my "un-l33t" friend knows the shortcut for the exposé feature (one of countless features i'm missing out on i'm sure, sigh).

[zAlbee]

"Windows" shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread for that matter, what has windows got to do with OSX? can't you mention an OS without Windows being brought into it... I could start a thread about linux and the person who posts after me will mention windows - thats totally retarded.

Hahaha... is that my fault? Woops. :flowers:


Also 1/3? try 98%
He did say 1/3 of all Earth's population... But I dont' even know if 1/3 is a good estimation of the number of humans who own computers, so maybe I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here, heh.


Also: my point about PC hardware being superior still stands ;).

[Hexidecimal]

Maybe I spoke to soon about blacklord and should have focuesed on zAlbee.

There is text, as soon as you place your cursor on an icon it tells you which program it is. Th elegance is that your desktop isn't littered with them...

Also, PC Hardware being superior, only really applies because Apple requires everything to be mac biosed. If it wasn't for that you COULD build your own mac, and if Steve Jobs wises up he'd actually release a PC version of OS X so you could still build your own.

[Blacklord]

PC hardware seems supperior becouse you have more control over it. And i think the text can be disabled.

[zAlbee]

I know! You have to mouse over it. Believe me, this guy has a LOT of icons, it's actually quite a chore to go through them all on the dockbar. :D Then again if it were my computer I'd probably be familiar with which ones were which already and where they separate from the task (?) icons.

Re: hardware - well yes, that was my entire point. The availability of 3rd party hardware is a huge win, for both best-quality and most inexpensive parts. Apple needs to embrace that. Heck, they should have done what these OSx86 people have done. I mean obviously you're enjoying being able to run it on your own hardware :). It's nice to have choice.

[jdsony]

My job is to support Windows PC's daily. I've grown to hate it. There are so many issues that crop up which are absolutely impossible to explain to the client. I can usually fix them easily but as someone said earlier, it all seems like a kludge.

If you work on/own a Windows PC you REALLY need to learn a lot if you want to keep out of trouble. If you are fairly computer illiterate then a LOT of simple tasks will make no sense (they just happen to be that way). I get frustrated with computer illiterate people because in a Windows environment they NEED NEED NEED to take some courses or read up on how to fix their own problems or they will be asking for help their whole life.

Apple has actually taken the time to make an OS that will allow people to use it with little to no knowledge. Many people say MacOS sucks because it doesn't give you enough control, or you can do as much. What do you want to do with the OS? I've gotten to the point where I am TIRED of fiddling around with pointless parts of the OS that just waste time. An OS is there to run your "SOFTWARE", it should be transparent. I don't know about the rest of you but I usually use my computer to run programs not to "play" and "tweak" the OS.

I'm still a PC user but I will be making the switch in the future. The Mac isn't for everyone but it will work for me. Most of what I would use it for are for Graphics and Audio apps which 95% of what I use is available for MacOS as well and the other 5% could be found from other developers. Gaming is the one area that I wish was better and hopefully will be now that the hardware has become closer to being fully compatible. Most people would be happier with MacOS if all or most of their software can be found for it. Windows isn't going to become a number two player anytime soon but I suspect Mac market share will grow. Now all they need to do is lower their prices a little. I don't expect PC level prices but I at least expect top end hardware for the prices they charge.