Linux...

[DarthDazDC]

I was looking at the 'Show me Your Desktop!' thread and i thought that the few Linux OS's i saw on a few people's comps looked pretty gud, i've got windows xp professional, and what are the advantages of a few Linux OS's over windows xp?? I've seen SuSe but im not convinced, i've only seen the desktop :P I'm interested in switchin over to Linux, but if a few people can give me a push over goin over to it that'd be gr8.

[DarthDazDC]

14 views and no replies?? i wanna know wots the best LINUX operating system out there, and if it is better than windows XP, i,e more stable, better performance, etc, Hacktarux mgiht be able to help me, as he runs a LINUX OS.

[rcgamer]

no need to replace xp just create a partition and install linux to it. mandrake linux is the only one i have used. it was pretty good but you will have learn some new terminology. its kinda sorta like windows but different .lol. linux doesnt have the game support that windows has. so if your a gamer you will want to keep windows in addition to linux.

[ScottJC]

If you play a lot of games I wouldn't change to linux if I were you, compatibility is horrendous.

[DarthDazDC]

i dont play a lot of games, they're on my desktop cos i cant be bothered to remove 'em or just doin somethin more worthwhile! :P

EDIT: I'm gettin a new hard drive soon so i want to have a reliable desktop, even tho it may have been the hard drive's fault for my user profile f**king up, it could have been windows too, and cos of that my view on its changed, so i want to change it to somethin more reliable. I'd only prob play emulated games, mostly MAME, would i be able to run iTunes and MSN Messenger 7.0 on SuSe 9.2??
Also where would i be able to get these desklets on the 1st pic and the modified start menu from from the second pic??

[Hexidecimal]

I've run the gambit over the last month or so, testing Mandrake 10.1 SuSe 9.2 Professional, Fedora Core 2, Fedora Core 3, and I even tried to install Gentoo. Gentoo isn't for beginners :P

After testing them all they each have their ups and downs, Mandrake and SuSe are great for install, setup, run, don't worry about updates. They have their own update systems (YOU for SuSe and I don't remember what Mandrakes is called) but they only update certain components, I couldn't for the life of me get YOU to update to the latest kernel. Mandrake also has a pay for update service, but I never even bothered because I didn't like Mandrake the much.

As far as Fedora Core goes, 2 comes pre packaged with the source to the kernel, which you need for certain things (like the horendous ATI drivers) but SuSe and Mandrake and Gentoo come with it as well. Fedora Core 3 however, is not prepackaged with the kernel source, they say its to manage disc space. You can get away with not installing the source as long as you don't plan to recompile your kernel.

My main thing was package availability. Fedora Core 3 has a TON of packages and package websites ready for it always with the latest software. You can almost always find precompiled i3/4/5/686 RPM files (Redhat Package Managment) which installs and rebuilds your system around new packages. Which is nice if you don't know much about compiling src files. I will admit I have a very limited compile knowledge (though I did manage to build my own ZSNES 1.42 this week) so it's nice that almost everything I want is always up to date in a prebuilt package for me. I could usually find some version of what I want for SuSe but it was either a version or 2 behind the current, or built for 9.0 or 9.1. Mandrake was rather difficult to find precompiled files for.

Package management is also key for me. I rather like Gnome 2.8 as opposed to KDE 3.3 which is what SuSe is built around. Gnome for SuSe is version 2.6 which I don't care for, and theres also no built in RPM management utility for Gnome is SuSe, which means if I want to install anything, I had to either do it in the terminal, or I had to log out of Gnome, switch to KDE and install, then switch back to Gnome and use what I wanted, and sometimes that didn't even work (Mupen is a good example, for the life of my I couldn't get it working in Gnome 2.6 but it works in Fedora with 2.8). With Fedora Core 3 theres RPM management in Gnome because its based off of the Redhat architechture. I just double click my RPM files, and it starts to install, tells me what other packages I need to find and install, and I can usually get everything to work okay. With Mandrake I didn't really worry about it because I only really used it a few days before getting rid of it, because I didn't care for it.

Video drivers are a catagory all their own. I litterally bought a new video card because ATI drivers were horrible. They are eons behind Nvidia's. With my new 6800 I used the Unofficial Fedora FAQ (http://www.fedorafaq.org/) and their utilities for installing my drivers and it worked well enough to get them installed, but I still had to edit my X.Org config to utilize the drivers, and getting Dual Monitors working as 1 monitor like in XP was a whole other story, way more X.Org config editing there too. But that's just how my setup is, either side has driver problems, ATI's are the worst though, I couldnt even log into the X-System (GUI For Linux) after a botched install of them, but with Nvidia I installed the drivers, logged into X, modified a couple files, restarted and had full 3D acceleration, which is important for gamers. So thats all a matter of what video card you use.

Other then that hardware detection is pretty spot on at this point, the only other problems I had was my sound card, but that was because my onboard sound and my SOund Blaster Live! 5.1 were interfering with one another, I had to disable onboard and then reinstall FC3 to get it all working, but it isnt hard to do. In SuSe I couldnt get my internet connection to be recognized during the update part of the installer, but as soon as I was logged in it found it. So that wasn't really a big deal either. Printers and Scanners are also troublesome in Linux sometimes, because a lot of major companies don't make linux drivers for consumer based products. My Canon S900 needed to use the S800 drivers with a DPI tweak to print full sized. But overall its pretty effortless to install everything. I haven't worried about my scanner, because I never use it.

Overall, I am most happy with Fedora Core 3, but that's just me, Linux is insanely versetile, and there's a build out there for everyone. Gentoo is th emost customizable as it builds itself around your hardware, SuSe and Mandrake are great beginner build because there are a decent ammount of options without getting too technical, I chose Fedora because its a pretty decent mid level user build, it lets you do a lot of Terminal Work as well as dueling out a lot of automated stuff for you, plus FC3 is right on the edge of the up and coming. Latest packages for everything are always built for Fedora and it always gets you up to date with all the newest updates and kernel builds that are actual stable releases (no betas) plus a slew of other features. It doesn't support NTFS drive reading out of the box but a simple package install and FSTAB edit fixes that, but I like it the most.


I hope this helps you decide which Linux to try, I would recommend SuSe if you're just starting, and most prefer KDE but thats them, I like Gnome because it runs less crap in the background. If you want a bit more of a challenge, go for Fedora, because its a good time, but if you really want to tackle linux all at once, get the latest Universal Installer for Gentoo and go to town.

[DarthDazDC]

woah, thanx very much for that, does SuSe have a kind of plug and play system for hardware that XP has?? as i've got a wireless router, webcam and a few other things, would they be detectable in SuSe and would be able to use them right away?
Also I've added a bit more on my pevious post.

[Hexidecimal]

SuSe has the SuSe Plugger system, which works fine for hardware detection like USB stuff, also I saw you asked about MAME, which I just started tooling around with, XMAME and GXMAME as a front end work well, even if I can't get fullscreen to work yet because of stretching issues.

Edit: I don't know about those applets, but this is my current FC3 Top.

http://home.comcast.net/~jebbeck/screen.png

[DarthDazDC]

ah ok, i've added you to my contacts on MSN, we could talk there about this if you like.

[DarthDazDC]

Also, if SuSe recognized the wireless adapter, would it still connect to the other computer, as that has windows xp home installed on it?

[Gorxon]

Yes, linux supports windows file sharing.

[DarthDazDC]

ok, now with the help of Hexdecimal (thanx :D) I'm gonna use SuSe 9.2 professional with KDE as the GUI, I want to try and find a way to get MSN Messenger 7 beta workin on it, as I've heard that GAIM can be a pain in the ass... Also the second pic that I put up near the top of the thread, what is the thing at the bottom that shows large icons of programs next to one another, it looks really good for me, saves up the space for the desktop, does anyone know wot that is?? and where could i get it??

[smcd]

A Dockbar? xfce supports those, I like it pretty well. If you want more programs in xfce you can right click the desktop and get a full list (screenshots) http://www.emutalk.net/showpost.php?p=257829&postcount=1333 As for MSN Messenger, how do you expect to do that? MSN Messenger is windows only as far as i know - using WINE?

[DarthDazDC]

maybe, not sure of the compatibility, but there must be some way of doin it

[Hexidecimal]

It might work in Wine, but who knows, MSN Messenger is a pretty lousy piece of software anyways, give GAIM a try before you rule it out, its not very complicated.

[smcd]

gaim works fine as a IM client, chatroom support is only so-so in my opinion. you might also want to try kopete (a KDE multi-messenger client) or browse sourceforge.net for some others.

[DarthDazDC]

meh, ok i'll give i a try once i've got it all runnin

[Flash]

also I saw you asked about MAME, which I just started tooling around with, XMAME and GXMAME as a front end work well, even if I can't get fullscreen to work yet because of stretching issues.
XMAME is about five times faster than win32 MAME - for example MK3 hardware, Psikyo SH2 hadware, Taito F3 or Killer Instinct - frameskip 5-6 and sound hickups in windows and no frameskip and 60/60 fps (1024x768x32 fullscreen Xv mode) with XMAME.

[Falcon4ever]

kopete works fine here

[DarthDazDC]

yeah i had a look at Kobete, looks pretty gud, i'll give that a try when everythin is sorted.

[Ashen]

The desklets you see in those pics are "GDesklets" for gnome. I use them quite a bit... they're really cool, and dont slow down your computer like their windows counterparts... though I did get a on the second glitch when I had the analogue clock have a second hand... :p.

I'm a Fedora Core 3 user myself, so the following info is based on an FC3 install... (maybe I'll put some notes in for Ubuntu as well, another lightweight userlevel distro you might like to look at)

Before you do anything in fedora you should update your yum config... yum is the program fedora uses to update/install software from the internet, which is pretty much all you'll be doing... In fact, when you want an app installed Yum should be your first point of contact, then google for rpms, then google for source.

($ means type in terminal)

Type the following in a terminal window (right click on the desktop --> terminal):


$ su -
$ gedit /etc/yum.conf


su means switch user. If you use the "su" command without specifying a user it will log you in as root, which you need to be to rape at your system configs (sych as yum.conf). gedit is the gnome text editor, its just like notepad, but for gnome... there are heaps of text editors in linux, this is the easiest one coming from windows.

Replace the yum config with the following:



# This is a yum.conf for Fedora Core 3.
# It uses Fedora mirrors to make things faster,
# since the main Red Hat Fedora site is pretty slow.
#
# Also, if you look down in the "Alternate Repositories"
# section, you'll notice some disabled repositories.
# If you want to use them, just do:
#
# yum --enablerepo <reponame> <command>
#
# Where <reponame> is the name of the repo, and <command>
# is your normal yum command.
#
# Authors:
# Maxwell Kanat-Alexander (max at fedorafaq dot org)
# Sindre Pedersn Bjørdal (foolish at fedorafaq dot org)
#
# Date: 6 February 2005
#
# Changes
# -------
# 6 February 2005
# + Fedora Extras!
# + Dries Mirrors
# + Fixed a Livna mirror.
# 26 November 2004
# + Updated ATrpms per Axel Thimm's request.
# 22 November 2004
# + Updated for Fedora Core 3
# 04 November 2004
# + Fixed and checked-over for publishing
# 17 July 2004 (Sindre)
# + Replaced Base, debug, updates-released and updates mirrors with faster ones.
# + Added the official servers to base and updates, commented of course.
# + Tested all non-commented parts, everything works.
# 29 May 2004
# + Tested commented-out parts: all work except subpop.net
# + Livna and NewRPMs mirrors!
# 22 May 2004
# + Incorporated Darrenn's fixes for Fedora Core 2!
# + Commented-out parts may still not work properly
# 29 Feb 2004
# + Updated a lot of mirrors, for speed
# + Fixed one ATrpms mirror
# + Added Dries and spc, two more FreshRPMs-compatible repos
# 9 Jan 2004
# + Updated ATrpms for their new directory structure.
# 31 Dec 2003
# + Added JPackage, commented out
# + Standard Red Hat Fedora Core sites commented-out by default
# + Removed dulug from debug, since it doesn't have debug
# 29 Dec 2003
# + Added mirrors for the flash-plugin, since some go down.
# + Added base-debuginfo, commented out

[main]
cachedir=/var/cache/yum
debuglevel=2
logfile=/var/log/yum.log
pkgpolicy=newest
distroverpkg=fedora-release
tolerant=1
exactarch=0
# Added this because some mirrors go down and then retying takes forever.
retries=1
timeout=10

# Basic Repos are in /etc/yum.conf.d/ #

###################
## Fedora Extras ##
###################

[extras]
name=Fedora Extras - $releasever - $basearch
baseurl=http://fr2.rpmfind.net/linux/fedora/extras/$releasever/$basearch/
http://mirrors.kernel.org/fedora/extras/$releasever/$basearch/
http://mirror.hiwaay.net/redhat/fedora/linux/extras/$releasever/$basearch/
http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/$releasever/$basearch/
# http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/$releasever/$basearch/
gpgcheck=0
gpgkey=http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/extras/RPM-GPG-KEY-Fedora-Extras

###############
## Livna.org ##
###############

[livna-stable]
name=Livna.org - Fedora Compatible Packages (stable)
baseurl=http://rpm.livna.org/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/RPMS.stable
http://livna.cat.pdx.edu/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/RPMS.stable
#gpgcheck=1

[livna-unstable]
name=Livna.org - Fedora Compatible Packages (unstable)
baseurl=http://rpm.livna.org/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/RPMS.unstable
http://livna.cat.pdx.edu/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/RPMS.unstable
#gpgcheck=1

[livna-testing]
name=Livna.org - Fedora Compatible Packages (testing)
baseurl=http://rpm.livna.org/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/RPMS.testing
http://livna.cat.pdx.edu/fedora/$releasever/$basearch/RPMS.testing
#gpgcheck=1


############
# Jpackage #
############

# JPackage is a GREAT repository for Java Software.
# However, you may have to compile some SRPMs to use it,
# so it's commented out by default. See
# <http://mirrors.sunsite.dk/jpackage/1.6/generic/non-free/SRPMS>
# For the SRPMs, and <http://www.jpackage.org/rebuilding.php> for
# the general details.
#
# Note: JPackage IS compatible with the fedora.us repositories.
# You can use JPackage and fedora.us at the same time, without
# any trouble. It's also compatible with the Alternate Repositories,
# for the most part.

[jpackage-generic]
name=JPackage Cross-Platform Packages
baseurl=http://mirrors.sunsite.dk/jpackage/1.6/generic/free
ftp://jpackage.hmdc.harvard.edu/JPackage/1.6/generic/free
http://sunsite.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/ftp/pub/Linux/jpackage/1.6/generic/free
failovermethod=priority
enabled=0
#gpgcheck=1

[jpackage-fedora]
name=JPackage Fedora Packages
baseurl=http://mirrors.sunsite.dk/jpackage/1.6/fedora-$releasever/free
ftp://jpackage.hmdc.harvard.edu/JPackage/1.6/fedora-$releasever/free
http://sunsite.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/ftp/pub/Linux/jpackage/1.6/fedora-$releasever/free
failovermethod=priority
enabled=0
#gpgcheck=1


############################
## Alternate Repositories ##
############################

# To use these repos, either use the --enablerepo
# command-line argument to yum, or change "enabled=0"
# to "enabled=1". Note: Some packagesfrom these repositories
# may conflict with the fedora.us packages. If you use these
# repositories, you may wish to disable the fedora.us and
# livna.org repositories.

[freshrpms]
name=FreshRPMs
mirrorlist=http://ayo.freshrpms.net/fedora/linux/$releasever/mirrors-freshrpms
enabled=0
#gpgcheck=1

[dag]
name=Dag APT Repository
baseurl=http://dag.freshrpms.net/fedora/$releasever/en/$basearch/dag/
http://dag.atrpms.net/fedora/$releasever/en/$basearch/dag/
http://ftp.heanet.ie/pub/freshrpms/pub/dag/fedora/$releasever/en/$basearch/dag/
enabled=0
#gpgcheck=1

[dries]
name=Dries APT/YUM Repository
baseurl=http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/dag/dries/fedora/linux/$releasever/$basearch/dries/RPMS/
http://mirrors.ircam.fr/pub/dag/dries/fedora/linux/$releasever/$basearch/dries/RPMS/
http://apt.sw.be/dries/fedora/linux/$releasever/$basearch/dries/RPMS/
http://dries.studentenweb.org/yum/fedora/linux/$releasever/$basearch/dries/RPMS/
enabled=0
#gpgcheck=1

[newrpms]
name=NewRPMs
baseurl=http://newrpms.sunsite.dk/apt/redhat/en/$basearch/fc$releasever
http://newrpms.atrpms.net/apt/redhat/en/$basearch/fc$releasever
enabled=0
#gpgcheck=1

[atrpms]
name=ATrpms - Stable
baseurl=http://apt.atrpms.net/fedora/$releasever/en/$basearch/at-stable
http://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/atrpms/download.atrpms.net/fedora/$releasever/en/$basearch/at-stable
http://wftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/ATrpms/fedora/$releasever/en/$basearch/at-stable
enabled=0
#gpgcheck=1

[atrpms-testing]
name=ATrpms - Testing
baseurl=http://wftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/ATrpms/fedora/$releasever/en/$basearch/at-testing
http://apt.atrpms.net/fedora/$releasever/en/$basearch/at-testing
http://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/atrpms/download.atrpms.net/fedora/$releasever/en/$basearch/at-testing
enabled=0
#gpgcheck=1

# Warning: Don't enable this "bleeding" repo if you want stable software!
[atrpms-bleeding]
name=ATrpms - Bleeding
baseurl=http://apt.atrpms.net/fedora/$releasever/en/$basearch/at-bleeding
http://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/atrpms/download.atrpms.net/fedora/$releasever/en/$basearch/at-bleeding
http://wftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/ATrpms/fedora/$releasever/en/$basearch/at-bleeding
enabled=0
#gpgcheck=1

###################
## Miscellaneous ##
###################

# Semi-official Macromedia repository containing the flash-plugin rpm.
[flash]
name=macromedia.mplug.org - Flash Plugin
baseurl=http://macromedia.mplug.org/apt/fedora/$releasever
http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/macromedia/apt/fedora/$releasever
http://ruslug.rutgers.edu/macromedia/apt/fedora/$releasever
http://macromedia.rediris.es/apt/fedora/$releasever
enabled=0
#gpgcheck=1


Hokay... now when your computer updates/installs software, its gonna look in a heap of places to install stuff. :) THIS IS GOOD!... as long as you've got an internet connect... otherwise you might wanna remove some of the ones like the flash one and java ones etc... just to make it go faster... and... atrpms... and... newrpms and dries... I dont use them often...

anyway... once you've done those 3 steps, you can install GDesklets by opening a terminal and typing:



$ yum --enablerepo=freshrpms install gdesklets


Basically you're telling yum to make sure it includes freshrpms in the sites it looks at when trying to find a file... Yum will connect to all of the default repos, find the right file for your system, download, and install the program, and any other peices of software it needs to run...

TALK ABOUT SERVICE!

:)

Most linux distros have similar methods of getting files... Debian (and debian based things like Ubuntu) have apt, and someone mentioned some others before.

Yum is really cool tho :)

Once you have gdesklets installed, make sure you're on a user account (not root), open a terminal and type:



$ gdesklets


that'll start the proggie, she'll sit in your system tray. You can then right click that and go "Manage desklets". Now we reach the good bit... (and even though I've rambled on, its only been about 4 or 5 steps all the way!)

...(this bit is also aplicable to anyone who has gdesklets installed)

go to http://gdesklets.gnomedesktop.org/ . Find a desklet you like, (lets say SideCandyRhythmbox, a desklet that places a remote control for the rhythmbox music player onto your desktop, complete with cover art etc) scroll down the page to the download. Right click it and go "copy link location" (firefox) or similar... copy url... maybe... I dunno... then go to your gdesklet managerjigga and go file --> install remote desklet (or something) and paste that url in.

Twill install the desklet. Then you can doubleclick it in the list to enable it.

You can edit the config of the desklet (to set it up how you like) by right clicking on it once its positioned on your desktop and going configure...

Thats about it... there are desklets for all sorts of things, email, putting news feeds on your desktop, clocks, those system monitor things, remote controls, yada yada yada...

---

I just wanted to say one more thing...

As far as linux gaming goes, despite what people say, a lot of games work really nicely on linux, in fact, every single game I want to play works on linux, either natively (in which case it runs BETTER than its windows counterpart) or in wine/cedega (in which case it runs similar to running it on a windows machine, tho there are still some bugs you occasionally have to squirm around ;) )

Not to mention the fact that there are stupidly large numbers of emulators on linux, so you're game base is pretty much huge...

I still have windows installed, but I havent booted into it for over 6 months now.

Another cool thing, I plugged in my usb converter thingie for Playstation controllers. It instantly recognised it, and could be used, comparitively, on windows there was a hell of alot of fudging about... you wouldn't expect installing a gaming device to be easier on linux then on windows ^_^'

There are two things you have to remember when turning to linux, the first thing is there will be a week or two, after installation where your system works itself in, to become 100% stable. (at least the first time you install). I'd call the linux distros I've installed as stable as windows out of the box, and then after a week or two I can run it non stop for weeks without any slowdown or crashes. Even in gaming.

The second thing is, that graphic drivers are stupid, god hates them. Nah... thats a lie... but the graphics card makers are a bit behind in the linux department... okay... thats also a lie. Most of the graphics card makers are very behind in the linux department. The exception to the rule is Nvidia. So if you want to game on Linux, use a Nvidia card. I'd say Nvidia have the best cards in the world at the moment anyway (ATI released something better, but the latest nvidia cards are nearly equal and half the price...). There is heaps of help for installing nvidia driver on the internet... whatever your disrtro... in fact... there is heaps of help for installing anything linux related on the internet... You've never seen the internet in action untill you start using linux, and working your system into perfect order by following the billions guides and things... really really...

I wonder if I've gone off topic...

:S... I cant remember what it was anymore...

Anyway... The only two distros worth looking at at the moment are Fedora and Ubuntu...

There are some others you might play with, but using either of those will give you a good starting point... they push you just far enough in for you to know what you're doing, but not too far that you end up having to buy a new computer, and rebuild the exploded in wall by your desk.

I hope that helps some people.

Cheers.
Ashen.

Some links...

Fedora:
Fedora Website - http://fedora.redhat.com
Fedora Core 3 Installation Notes (GOD) - http://stanton-finley.net/fedora_core_3_installation_notes.html
The Unofficial Fedora FAQ (GOD's little brother, ROD) - http://www.fedorafaq.org/

Ubuntu:
Ubuntu Website - http://www.ubuntulinux.org/
Ubuntu Linux Forums - http://www.ubuntuforums.org/
Unofficial Ubuntu 4.10 Starter Guide - http://www.ubuntuguide.org/

Nvidia:
Linux and FreeBSD Drivers - http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux.html
NVNews Linux Forum - http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14

GDesklets:
The site... - http://gdesklets.gnomedesktop.org/

(meep... seems as though I got a bit carried away... ^_^')

(I love linux)

(WEEEEEEEEEEE!)

[Ashen]

Hah! Tux is being buttraped by the FreeBSD Devil guy! Funniest thing i've seen all hour.

[DarthDazDC]

woah, thanx a lot for this :D

[Hexidecimal]

I agree, nVidia has the best cards for 3D Accel in linux in that they are by far the EASIEST to setup, espically if you use the Unofficial Fedora FAQ YUM Conf file. Also, check out Cedega, which is OUTSTANDING for playing windows games in linux, with my rig I play CS:S in FC3 without a hitch, and it's constantly updated.

[Ashen]

No problem... any time you want an excessively long reply just give me a yell.

:p.

Oh... and I dont know why you'd want to use MSN when you have gaim (infinitely better... IMHO, though I'll admit you have to get used to its quirks if you've only been using MSN... which you'd have to do with anything really) here's a link.

http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?versionId=2659

(yay for the wine app database!)