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X3ndou
December 31st, 2004, 07:47
So, what exactly is the difference?

From what I've heard, the only difference is that instead of reading data starting in the inner part, it starts at the outer part.

Because if that is true, then it would be easy to rip the games right off the discs on to your HD: all you have to do is read the data and rip it as an ISO, then just flip it backwards.

The same logic could be used to burn the data on the disc: just take the disc image, flip it backwards, and burn it back onto a DVD.

Is there something I'm missing here?

//edit: No, I'm not asking how to rip ISOs to the comp, the only question I'm asking is the difference between GC discs and miniDVDs.

JinXD
December 31st, 2004, 14:59
Use google, the above has nothing to do with emulation.....

Azimer
January 1st, 2005, 03:38
The differences have been debated over and over. Gamecube discs are encrypted. You will never be able to burn a copy of the disc, nor will you be able to read a disc in a standard drive. Each disc has a unique barcode which is used to decrypt the disc using the drive's controller. Is proprietary to Gamecube.


So, what exactly is the difference?

From what I've heard, the only difference is that instead of reading data starting in the inner part, it starts at the outer part.

Because if that is true, then it would be easy to rip the games right off the discs on to your HD: all you have to do is read the data and rip it as an ISO, then just flip it backwards.

The same logic could be used to burn the data on the disc: just take the disc image, flip it backwards, and burn it back onto a DVD.

Is there something I'm missing here?

//edit: No, I'm not asking how to rip ISOs to the comp, the only question I'm asking is the difference between GC discs and miniDVDs.

HyperHacker
January 15th, 2005, 23:36
Actually, a few drives supposedly can read the discs with custom drivers. But it won't do you much good, because it's impossible to burn the barcode onto a disc, unless you have access to a ~$3000 pressing machine.

azul
January 21st, 2006, 14:28
This post is not ment to annoy admis, just to clarify some things. I'm not revealing ways to dump images, just telling what does not work or what is known

Main difference GC disk and DVD (mini or regular) than GC disk contains Nintendo patented filesystem which is not readable by computer. Everything else is more like "guesswork" .. no-one has proven it working. Forget dumping it. No one knowns what it takes to dump images with computer. If topic is interesting for you .. it's better start research yourself .. my guess is equally good/bad as yours.

Some pepole (I don't know why) usually claim things like "my dvd drive reads GC disk.." or "I know how to read.." but does not want to prove it or makes evidence which is fake. It is useless to trust everything without knowledge.

Because of forum rules, I can't tell what "trick" could work. I'm just "summing things up" and if someone is going to research this itself. PLEASE don't post it here as rules are not to be broken.

My opinion: without modification to some part of hardware or firmware .. it's not possibile. I'm not starting discussion to modify hardware, don't ask. I'm not interested your reason. Specifying reason does not help you convince me.

Some basics below.

Yet Another GameCube Documentation is just guesswork .. no-one (except Nintendo, don't think they would reveal it) could say if it correct or incorrent.

Description of attached image:
If disk is written from outside in disk tracks (where DVD laser tries to read) would not match where DVD drive (at pc) tries to read. No reading would be possible. Disk rotates same direction as in pc (you can see disk spinning some cases when you open the disk case) .. audio players have possibility to see disk spinning inside .. direction is same and pc must have same direction to work. Data cd/dvd spins same direction. Attached image is spirals where disk is rotating same direction but drawn outside in and inside out. Tracks does not match. without modification to firmware of DVD .. forget it

According to Yet Another GameCube Documentation (http://www.gc-linux.org/wiki/Yet_Another_GameCube_Documentation) disks are XOR-encoded. Without key it's not possible to decrypt content even if you could possibly read disk. XOR is not possible to open without decryption key.


Each disc has a unique barcode which is used to decrypt the disc using the drive's controller.According to Azimer, barcode would be the key. Some ppl claim than barcode is just copyprotection and does not help with XOR. GC BIOS is allso encrypted so key could be in bios. Barcode is visible to plain eye if you look carefully inner part of disk. Yet Another GameCube Documentation says than it's part of copyprotection.

According to many sources (mainly forums which are debating and Yet Another GameCube Documentation, if I'm not mistaken) -- by altering dvd-drive firmware .. it could be possible to read disks (but not decrypt them) .. if you use modified firmware at drive.

GC is recognized incorrect disk or "drive not ready" .. about custom drivers which HyperHacker mentios .. i don't have knowledge about it.

Guru64
January 21st, 2006, 19:21
That the Gamecube reads the disc backwards is NOT true. Proof: check how a regular CD/DVD spins in a regular CD/DVD drive. Now, check the same for the Gamecube. See? They both spin the same way.

About reading Gamecube discs in a regular DVD drive, I sometimes check the Gamecube scene and I found out someone is working on a program to read Gamecube discs with a DVD drive. It could have been a hoax or something. I'll keep you guys informed.

azul
January 22nd, 2006, 08:13
That the Gamecube reads the disc backwards is NOT true. Proof: check how a regular CD/DVD spins in a regular CD/DVD drive. Now, check the same for the Gamecube. See? They both spin the same way.as normal direction is rotating normal direction, reading disk inside-outside. Backwards can mean:

rotating normal direction, reading disk outside-inside
rotating different direction, reading disk inside-outside
rotating different direction, reading disk outside-inside
all above (including normal) and data is written backwards

.. just depending who is saying :) which makes total of 8 "directions". Backwards reading (as I understand) works only if data is written backwards but direction is same as normal.


About reading Gamecube discs in a regular DVD drive, I sometimes check the Gamecube scene and I found out someone is working on a program to read Gamecube discs with a DVD drive. It could have been a hoax or something. I'll keep you guys informed.I have seen program which detects GC disk at about correct size but does not dump them.

Because of following, I don't reveal program name.

I'm interested to chat about this subject, but not breaking rules of this forum.
I don't remember program name, but I don't think it's worth searching and downloading (for this purpose) because it just detects size, does not dump disk.
I'm not interested to dump games with computer. I'm interested the description of gc-filesystem itself (and that Yet Another GameCube Documentation helps lot more than making dumping)

Don't bother PM me about it, I don't break rules in PM either.

squall_leonhart
February 6th, 2006, 10:54
no, i've checked myself, gamecube discs are read normally.. theres no way for a laser to read from the outside in, it doesn't work, cd's and dvd's are designed the same way as records are

the only problem here is that the GCB disk is encoded and encrypted, you can't load it in a drive unless you have the same software as nintendo have.

secondly, even if the GCN was read backwards, a normal drive could still read the data on the disk as it would dump the cd backwards, hence an emulator would still be able to read it.

just play your games on a gamecube... the original thing is always better quality then an emulator,. as the textures are different

timmyhawky
February 6th, 2006, 17:27
the only problem here is that the GCB disk is encoded and encrypted, you can't load it in a drive unless you have the same software as nintendo have.



so, the only way 2 rip is using a gamecube drive???

Blacklord
February 6th, 2006, 17:53
I guess neither of u searched or at least looked at the date...:/
Timmyhawky banned? Why?

Clements
February 6th, 2006, 18:08
Timmyhawky banned? Why?

He was temp-banned for continuing stupidity and an unacceptable level of minor rule infractions after a staff consensus.

sirilo
February 7th, 2006, 16:36
if computer cant read gc discs, how is possible to find isos on the net ?
how do they read them to make the isos ?

timmel
February 7th, 2006, 16:46
hint: edit your post.
why???
read the rules

themind
February 8th, 2006, 00:47
if computer cant read gc discs, how is possible to find isos on the net ?

Because a GC can read GC disks, and a GC is a computer.

Yoasakura
February 13th, 2006, 10:26
Hi, i'm new here, reading this topic, but,
Azul told that Azimer guy belive that the encyption Key is the Barcode on CG Discs
I really don't know much (at last, really few things) about GameCube Hardware/Software.

But, i found out that, the GameCube laser don't reach the Barcodes that Azimer told to be the key. (I measured the distance of the barcodes and the optcal lens from the Disc center, was about 1,4cm the max. where the reader reach)

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7493/gamecubedisc4mv.jpg
if the key he told is that big-one in the dark area from the image, the laser don't reach it, what means this bar code has nothing to do with encryption or even, protection.

BUT! there is a little detail arround it:
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5526/interestingpattern4mt.gif
There is a pattern like this in ALL GameDiscs (at last the ones that i own)
i don't know what it is, but the reader can reach it. (actually, it's where the reader was when i opened the disc cover =] )