P2P Legal Defense Fund

[Gorxon]

Some of you might have heard of it long ago, but I thought I would post so those of you who hasn't and has a lot of money to give away would get to know it. Basically it's a fund where those who have been sued by RIAA can get donations, and you donate directly to a family. Some of you might even have been sued by RIAA already, so check it out:

http://www.downhillbattle.org/defense/index.shtml

No, I haven't donated myself...hipocrasy?
Well, I am not touching paypal with a 10 feet pole...but many of you have PP accounts already.

[Geoz]

RIAA are going the wrong way about trying to curve the MP3 download 'problem'

Suing people is not going to help anything. It will just drive people to do it more. People will develop tools so IPs can’t be traced or scrambled. And it will go underground. Which will make it even more difficult for RIAA to trace. What they should be doing is pressuring the P2P companies to patrol the servers and remove MP3s

Suing is wrong. The whole culture behind it I don’t agree with. I feel sorry for the families of the people who have been branded criminals because personally I don’t believe that it true.

Personally i use the iTunes scheme. Not that suing me detered me or anything, just that i wasn't too fond of kazaa & iMesh. Just too much spyware and viruses.

I would donate myself but i dont use PP.

[DuDe]

Yeah well in my opinion, if you were dumb enough to use Kazaa, even though it was a known fact that it's full of spyware and other crap, you deserve to be sued. It's shit, and there are far better alternatives out there.
Better yet, why should I donate my hard earned money to some noob pirate?

[2fast4u]

as much as the actions of the riaa are wrong imo, i have no interest in helping these folks.

[Geoz]

as much as the actions of the riaa are wrong imo, i have no interest in helping these folks.

Both as bad as each other. Damn. Thats Cynical. :naughty:

i suppose id donate like 3 euros just cos i felt sorry for them. But then again. Thats like 3 Us less fuel... Hmm choices eh?

Hell i supose if you are going to pirate then do it properly but i dont think people should complain when they get caught. I mean they could have used iTunes. No-one forced them to use P2P apart from there own greed. But i still dont agree that being sued is the way to go around about it.

[AlphaWolf]

Suing is wrong. The whole culture behind it I don’t agree with. I feel sorry for the families of the people who have been branded criminals because personally I don’t believe that it true.


So if somebody burglarized you, you wouldn't sue them?

/me pulls out his "Mission Impossible breaking and entering playset."

[Xade]

I think that they should burn in righteous law-fueled flames.

I buy EVERY one of my albums legitimately and utterly DESPISE any form of music copying and burning to CDs. It's completely shit, and is no way to enjoy music, nor build a music collection.

Downloading legally is fine of course, but just not my personal preferance.

In any case, even if these characters were downloading you'd expect maybe, say, downloading a single, liking it and BUYING the album, but ohhhh no, from the sounds of things they've been downloading fucking hundreds.

Well fuck them.

[Geoz]

So if somebody burglarized you, you wouldn't sue them?


I sleep with my door unlocked. And leave it unlocked all day. Where i live its very rare that people get burgled. But yeah i see what you mean... Downloading MP3s is a crime is you dont own them. But no i wouldnt sue them, i just leave law enforcement to take them down, thats good enough for me. Because too be honest if Suing people is frowned upon from where i come from. And anyway the person obviously cant be that well off to justify suing if he has too stoop to stealing from other people in the first place.

http://www.emutalk.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=14994&stc=1

[rcgamer]

hmmmm actually communism in its pure state would be great. as for this legal defense fund, I say you did the crime now do the uuuuhhhh paying.

[Geoz]

hmmmm actually communism in its pure state would be great.

Yes, in theory Communism works. But that’s just a theory. All previous attempts at complete communism have failed. We can never have pure communism because your minds are just not capable of being pure. It will always screw up somewhere, we are just too easy to corrupt. :getlost:

And anyway I defiantly would rather have Democracy than anything else. It has to be the greatest French invention ever. (Apart from the Citroen Saxo)

[Niggy G]

I don't own that many albums, about 20, however I do rip friends CD's to MP3.

I can see that this is wrong but hey, im a student. :beer:

[revl8er]

There really isn't any way that the RIAA can stop people from downloading anything. As long as the internet exists then there will alway be downloading so they should just give up.

[AlphaWolf]

And anyway I defiantly would rather have Democracy than anything else. It has to be the greatest French invention ever. (Apart from the Citroen Saxo)

French invention? Actually democracy is old, ancient greece old (modern day "France" was actually named "Gaul" at the time.) The US altered democracy a bit (mainly put a bigger emphasis on individual liberties) and France (then eventually the rest of Europe) actually adopted our version of democracy. :P

[sytaylor]

MP3's have revolutionised my listening habbits in the last 4 years, and caused me to buy far more albums than I ever would have. Most importantly though, its caused me to see the bands live which is what rewards them greatest financially

[2fast4u]

i suppose id donate like 3 euros just cos i felt sorry for them.

i cant even say i was sorry for them. people who download music excessively on an illegal basis just ask for it. let them pay up.

personally i hardly listened to any music up until 3 years ago, as today im addicted to it, which is also a cause of mp3. i buy all my albums and go see the bands live, thats something i never imagined i would do.

[Geoz]

Well the French got rid of their Kings and Queens first didn’t they?
Yeah the USA copied the idea and put more emphasis on individuals but it was a French idea in the begining. Power to the people.
The French made the step; at least that’s what I have been taught.

As long as MP3s exist and are as small, easy and quick to download it is going to be an uphill struggle stopping them. That’s a fact. So the RIAA are going to have to start putting better protection on discs or something.

[2fast4u]

dont take alpha too seriously in terms of history, thats what i do. he just wants to provoke ;)


So the RIAA are going to have to start putting better protection on discs or something.

they got owned by the shift-key! :blink:

[Moose Jr.]

lol. I know it's off-topic, but I couldn't help but notice how alpha was instructing an Athenian on the orgins of democracy.

Anyway, my take on this is simple: People who steal should not be supported in their actions.

[Geoz]

How much did these people getting sued download?

I asked around and from what I heard they download Gigabytes of the stuff.

[AlphaWolf]

Well the French got rid of their Kings and Queens first didn’t they?
Yeah the USA copied the idea and put more emphasis on individuals but it was a French idea in the begining. Power to the people.
The French made the step; at least that’s what I have been taught.


Nope, the French revolution of 1789 was actually inspired by our own, where we abolished the power of the british monarchy. Our constitution was even ratified (e.g. our government became official) just before the French revolution began. But, even though they did abolish the monarchy and execute the king and queen (and lynch anybody who even looked rich) during the revolution, they were considered to be an empire, the next best thing to a monarchy, until the third republic (IIRC? either that or it was after WWII).

[Xade]

If you're talking in terms of who has kings and queens, then you'd say England lives under some dictorial, autocratic leadership. Which is wrong. It's suprising you don't mention us, actually, what with in essence being practically the world's oldest democracy and infact giving you half of what you US folk base your deocracy on.

I suppose the magna carta doesn't come into this or anything, either, right?

But, y'know... carry on...

(As for the jokers downloading music excessively, I think I've already been pretty damned explicit on where I stand on the situation. And REAL CDs and vinyl is THE way people - christ I'm 17 and I've got 120 albums).

[AlphaWolf]

Well, its well known that the US has the worlds oldest living constitution :P

[rcgamer]

saying france is the oldest democracy is ridiculous. napolean came to power after the revolutionary war. marquis de lafayette (who was related to the then king by marriage), served with washington during the revolution,he was one of the first frenchman to bring the idea back to france.

[2fast4u]

hrm .. im still wondering what the big deal is which country was democratic first. you guys are just comparing dick sizes, you know who you are :P

[Xade]

saying france is the oldest democracy is ridiculous. napolean came to power after the revolutionary war. marquis de lafayette (who was related to the then king by marriage), served with washington during the revolution,he was one of the first frenchman to bring the idea back to france.

Oh and I suppose the USA is then? Y'know, you've seen my other post there...

And 2fast, personally I'm just defending the honour of... queen... and country! Yeargh!

Oh, and, uh, yeah, those p2p guys, huh...

[2fast4u]

And 2fast, personally I'm just defending the honour of... queen... and country! Yeargh!

as i am defending the honour of chocolate chip cookies and pickels. ^^

[AlphaWolf]

Oh and I suppose the USA is then? Y'know, you've seen my other post there...


It is (well, the moern definition of democracy at least,) England was a "constitutional monarchy" until the 19th century :P (remember that constitution != democracy, rather it's a framework for a system of government)

And yes, damn those RIAA bastards :D

[Geoz]

Don’t you just love the way stuff always turns into something completely different on EmuTalk?

Lol makes me glad to be back.

Democracy in Greece. Lol what a joke. We had 17N roaming our streets like a year ago, knee caping anyone they wanted to, those assholes should burn in hell. (Btw I never said I was Athenian.) And our retarded President is telling people to vote no to unite Cyprus. And don’t get me started about the Orthodox Church… [As you guessed I am not very nationalist, religious or patriotic] - Which I admit is strange from someone coming from the Balkans eh?

Yeah the Magna Carta. Whether you like it or not the French were the first to introduce a set of guide lines stating individual’s rights. Not America, i dont care how you spin it.

[2fast4u]

Don’t you just love the way stuff always turns into something completely different on EmuTalk?

if you think emutalk is bad, try nvnews ;)

[Geoz]

if you think emutalk is bad, try nvnews ;)

Its the way EmuT does it... With style, (most of the time), i mean on other forums this would end up probably about comparing dick sizes or something because some immature 12 years old would having misinterpreted your prevous post and taken it to the extend as "m1nes biga den urs"

[Xade]

Just because I'm cruising with 14" of raw power...

...

... *cough* :happy:

I see your point though, certainly. I've been reasonably impressed since I got back into this after like a ten month hiatus. Although some of the figures around here are marginally up their own asses. But, y'know, I've just claimed a 14 inch manhood, so...

[DuDe]

The gayness factor of this thread is dramatically rising with each post.

[vampireuk]

Agreed, stop talking about pen0s's

[AlphaWolf]

Democracy in Greece. Lol what a joke. We had 17N roaming our streets like a year ago, knee caping anyone they wanted to, those assholes should burn in hell. (Btw I never said I was Athenian.) And our retarded President is telling people to vote no to unite Cyprus. And don’t get me started about the Orthodox Church… [As you guessed I am not very nationalist, religious or patriotic] - Which I admit is strange from someone coming from the Balkans eh?

Yeah the Magna Carta. Whether you like it or not the French were the first to introduce a set of guide lines stating individual’s rights. Not America, i dont care how you spin it.

Democracy itself started in ancient greece, think back to the golden age of philosophy, B.C. times around that of socrates and plato, not modern greece. Also, the magna carta wasn't french, it was british, and it didn't establish a democracy at all. All it did was place a few restrictions on what the monarchy was allowed to do on subjects like taxes, administration of justice, etc. Trust me, france did not start democracy, not even close, no matter how much you spin it :)

But, going back on topic, check this out: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/22/1855215&mode=thread&tid=99

[Gorxon]

Well, I guess this thread was a bad idea, but just to add one final point:

CD's here cost $28 in a normal CD store. Of course you can get it cheaper, but not by that much and often it means importing. If that's not overpricing I dunno what. But, all of you who had that mass-copying argument of course have a point (and cds dont cost so much in the US).
I just dont like to spend so much money on a CD i might not like (hence I check them out first). Besides, owning the CD is much nicer than just having some mp3's lying around. Dunno if this has much to do with the RIAA victims though..

Anyways, by all means, I didn't mean to interrupt your history discussion so please ignore this... :P

[AlphaWolf]

Relatively speaking, CDs do cost a bit much here in the US. I compare DVDs to CDs, CDs usually cost more and contain far less content. Hell, the Matrix Revolutions was available for $12.50 when it first came out, and the soundtrack was $15. How stupid is that?! The DVD already includes all of those audios to begin with in the first place! Thats an oligopoly for you.

[smegforbrain]

Actually, the USA is the oldest Republic iirc. With a republic being a form of democracy...

Anyways, while prices vary greatly from place to place, it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of cd's are still atleast $15-18.

Even iTunes has had to price some cd's over $9.99 now to $13.99 due to various factors (such as the music industry trying to still pinch more money out of us).

And yes, DVD prices, on average, are lower than cd prices. That is rather sickening. :)

[NeoNight]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/04/22/news_6094352.html

[AlphaWolf]

Actually, the USA is the oldest Republic iirc. With a republic being a form of democracy...

Kinda sorta...republic implies power to the majority, whereas democracy implies a balance of power between all classes (e.g, say the poor outnumber the rich, but neither has the ability to overpower the other; they both have an equal voice.) The USA has traits of both, but its mostly a democracy because of the representative system.

[2fast4u]

CD's here cost $28 in a normal CD store. Of course you can get it cheaper, but not by that much and often it means importing. If that's not overpricing I dunno what. But, all of you who had that mass-copying argument of course have a point (and cds dont cost so much in the US).
I just dont like to spend so much money on a CD i might not like (hence I check them out first). Besides, owning the CD is much nicer than just having some mp3's lying around. Dunno if this has much to do with the RIAA victims though..

a new cd costs about 15 euros here, maybe 20 if you are going with a digipack. there is very few ones id buy without having "sampled" it first either cuz its just too much money. and yeah, a real cd is much nicer than a few mp3s or a burned cd-r.

[revl8er]

That's pretty f**ked up that the FBI would get involved like that. I guess they really want to get rid of pirating. People better watch out what they are downloading. I could care less about the people getting targeted such as warez, but I am concerned about fairlight being targeted since I downloaded a couple of his games in the past. Oh well, I guess it was gonna happen sooner or later.

[revl8er]

Don’t you just love the way stuff always turns into something completely different on EmuTalk?

This isn't anything compared to gamefaqs.


How much did these people getting sued download?

I can't remember exact numbers, but I read that the people could get sued for $150,000 for every song because of the federal copyright law. They only caught people who were downloading frequently.

[revl8er]

http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3484600,00.html

Here's a site with a list of usernames the RIAA is targeting.

[revl8er]

http://radio.about.com/library/weekly/aa082603a.htm

Look at this shit, it will make you laugh.

[Allnatural]

http://www.techtv.com/news/culture/story/0,24195,3484600,00.html

Here's a site with a list of usernames the RIAA is targeting.
Heh, almost exclusively Kazaa users.

[Xade]

Y'know Alpha, indeed whatever way you spin it, it was infact the English who laid the foundations for the very democracy that you are so proud of, with the magna carta being one of many contributions.

Also the fact that, y'know, you = us to a certain degree. And it's a commonly known fact that your legal system and many other rights and freedoms of your citizens were based on the very same that existed within England.

Just a pity we were hell-bent on dominating you guys, so I'll apologise a few hundred years later on behalf of my moronic ancestors.

AND with another note to the whole cd situation, an album in HMV here typically retails at £12-14 ($20-24). Of course, with sales the prices often come down, and independents usually offer them for less, but the average price of a cd for me translated for you guys is thereabouts $16. Not cheap. It's understandable that people should be annoyed with price-fixing, but then A) your RIAA guys have no power here and B) even in the US you'd have to be dumb to stroll into Tower Records and expect a bargain. If that's your attitude to buying music as opposed to bargain-hunting, then you deserve your rip-off CDs. It's piss easy to find CDs half price with some searching.

[revl8er]

Yeah mostly Kazaa members, I'm just glad I wasn't being targeted.

[vampireuk]

If you use kazaa you deserve to get sued :p

[smegforbrain]

If you use kazaa you deserve to get sued :p

*chuckle* Too true.

Although, I have yet to fully figure out whether the RIAA targetting extreme downloaders, or extreme uploaders, or both.

Everybody is saying something different between whether these are uploaders or downloaders that are getting sued.

[AlphaWolf]

Y'know Alpha, indeed whatever way you spin it, it was infact the English who laid the foundations for the very democracy that you are so proud of, with the magna carta being one of many contributions.


Well, history is history, I guess you can interpret it however you want :P

So far as the justice system, you are right, but we are more conservative. E.g. in the US, the instant a burglar breaks into your house uninvited, he loses all rights, including that of life and liberty. In england, he has the right to not get diced up by a samurai sword (http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2687311). :happy:

[Moose Jr.]

Well, history is history, I guess you can interpret it however you want :P

So far as the justice system, you are right, but we are more conservative. E.g. in the US, the instant a burglar breaks into your house uninvited, he loses all rights, including that of life and liberty. In england, he has the right to not get diced up by a samurai sword (http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2687311). :happy:

And the sad thing is, the guys who robbed his house will probably get less time. :blink:

[Moose Jr.]

*chuckle* Too true.

Although, I have yet to fully figure out whether the RIAA targetting extreme downloaders, or extreme uploaders, or both.

Everybody is saying something different between whether these are uploaders or downloaders that are getting sued.

It seems reasonable to me that only the download should get charged, seeing as the uploaders can't exactly FORCE you to download illegally from them. But then again, this whole mess seems to have little to do with reason.

[revl8er]

Well I believe that uploaders should be charged for putting the files up for downloading. Even though they don't force you to download, they are putting them there knowing what people are going to do with them.


If you use kazaa you deserve to get sued :p

I currently don't use kazaa, but I did to begin with until I found Kazaa lite and bittorrent. I also make sure that I don't share my files to make sure I don't get caught because of uploading.

[NeoNight]

i'd like to see them catch people on mirc lol

that'll probably be like looking for a few needles in a river.

[Geoz]

Dont they all really use the same network?

[Xade]

No.

And Alpha, that post was from the Scotsman for God's sakes, the source title is self-evident as not English!!!

Although, admittedly there was this guy over here who shot some punk burgular with a shotgun and got put down for a couple of years.

In the US can you just lace bullets into the intruder?

[vampireuk]

Actually in both countries (UK and US) if you get injured trying to burgle someone you can turn around and sue them :rolleyes: its bloody rediculous.

[NeoNight]

lol yeah you should be kind to your burglars! leave the door open for them and make sure the floor isn't slippery or has any objects laid around that could cause them to trip. :spiderman

[AlphaWolf]

In the US can you just lace bullets into the intruder?

Yep, once somebody intrudes, they are at your complete disposal so long as you don't do anything unnecessary like rape them :D (though it hasn't happened yet so I can't say whether or not you can, but my guess is certainly not.)

There was one guy in my state who killed an intruder with an illegal firearm, all the state did was take it away from him and give him the same fine that you'd get if you were just cought normally, no jail time or anything severe though.

You have to make sure that you are the one that does the damage to the intruder though, because if they slip and break a finger they can sue you for medical expenses (but that isn't to say that you can't countersue for damages and invasion of privacy, and they still do go to jail for breaking and entering.)

Not sure why this is either, I think it has something to do with you being responsible for the safety of your property (e.g. in case some child walks into your back yard and drowns in your pool, you are held responsible) and some crazy lawyers carried that precident over to include illegal breaking and entering. IMO congress needs to do something to fix that. Hell, I don't even think you should be responsible for somebody elses half assed parenting, but we have liberals in our society, and they insist. (in fact most of them want to remove your right to defend your own property a la the current system in england *shudder*)

[revl8er]

Well I have heard of people getting in trouble for shooting an intruder even though he's trespassing. All you have to do though is put a weapon in his hand or say you saw something shiny in his hand.

[Geoz]

Yeah i heard in the UK there was this farmer who shot this kid who was stealing stuff from his house. The kid died and he went down for murder. - there was also quite a bit of debate whether he had the right to protect himself and his property. Thing was though he was being robbed loads. Personally I think if you gave people that right to defend with a gun it could be used a deterrent but then also more guns would be available. Also it wouldn’t stop the real desperate people in society either.

[vampireuk]

His conviction was reduced to manslaughter and he is now free.

[AlphaWolf]

Personally, I like to see tougher punishments for these things. In some arab countries, they cut your hand off if you are caught stealing, and that is a damn good deterrant. If everybody feared for their life when they burglarize, I guarentee you that it would happen much less.

[Xade]

Damned right, and it's good that you guys over there can defend home and land which is your own. We are distinctly lacking that sort of thing over here.

Mind, we don't have a Patriot Act, so... advantages both side of the pond :D

[AlphaWolf]

Mind, we don't have a Patriot Act, so... advantages both side of the pond :D

I have heard people complain about the patriot act, but I honestly have no idea exactly what it is other than requiring any companies to divulge personal information to the government (its never affected me and I haven't had time to read up on this stuff.) I do remember hearing that it will expire sometime this year unless congress renews it though, as its only supposed to be temporary.

[smegforbrain]

I do remember hearing that it will expire sometime this year unless congress renews it though, as its only supposed to be temporary.

Bush wants it to become permanent.

It basically gives the gov't the power to do stuff like go to a library and get records of everything you've ever checked out, etc. Some of it is an attempt at keeping up with the times - a roving wiretap is to deal with cell phones, etc.

But because of the whining of privacy groups, it's hard to tell which parts are legit and which is Big Brother (and we all know that Bush is Big Brother).

[AlphaWolf]

Bush wants it to become permanent.

Are you sure about that? I thought I read a news article the other day where he said he only wants to renew it until the situation in the middle east has calmed down.

[Alchy]

Google "patriot act 2". Land of the free my ass...

[AlphaWolf]

Google "patriot act 2". Land of the free my ass...

You know, I couldn't even read that beyond the second paragraph. It's so biased its pathetic. It looks like it was written by micheal moore or something (that guy that even hollywood liberals boo-ed off of the stage)

[Gorxon]

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/main_news.cfm?NewsID=8493

I guess it doesnt come as a surprise...greedy bastards...
From what I have heard iTunes hardly make any money at all from each song they sell. It's just that they sell loads that keep them going.

[Xade]

Hah, well I already hate downloading albums instead of buying CDs. Now I simply laugh. Let's have the twelve year-olds and the 30something coffee table crew have their fucking downloads at $5 a song. Fuck them. All of them.

BUY CDs YOU RETARDS.

[smegforbrain]

Err, ok, Xade.

All in all, the biggest roadblock for me with online downloading is the restrictiveness of it all. It's a necessary evil though.

I tried iTunes with those Pepsi cap downloads. Then I found out the song wouldn't run outside of iTunes unless I burned the song off, then ripped it back into mp3 format.

This is NOT user friendly in the least.

Back to the Patriot Act. If the War on Terror takes as long as some say (which would be decades), then the Patriot Act will likely be made permanent if some like Bush get their way.

[AlphaWolf]

Back to the Patriot Act. If the War on Terror takes as long as some say (which would be decades), then the Patriot Act will likely be made permanent if some like Bush get their way.

"They" tend to overblow these things. Everytime a war breaks out, these hippies start to gather up into a big scum line and protest in these assanine ways, like having a puke out, (what the hell is that supposed to accomplish anyways?) chanting their cheezy "ho ho hey hey" slogans, or something equally childish because they aren't reliable enough to flip burgers. When they don't get their ways, they start destroying property and throwing bottles of acid at riot control officers demanding peace "or else". Then when that isn't enough, some idiots like michael moore begin to support them and cry "world war 3." It invariably happens :doh:

[smegforbrain]

Who says these are the hippies talking?

It's actually people who are experts in the area or from the Bush Administration (who are not experts).

[AlphaWolf]

It's actually people who are experts in the area or from the Bush Administration (who are not experts).

Are these the same experts that predicted that the US would take up thousands of casualties before overthrowing Baghdad? Have these experts' predictions ever been accurate before?

I recall several of these self claimed "experts" predicting it on the scale of Vietnam. In Vietnam there were 13 vietnamese killed for every US soldier killed. In this war its easily over a few thousand towliebans and saddomizers for every coalition soldier.

In vietnam their population overwhelmed us by more than 13:1, hence our problem. However, in this "war on terror" they do not carry a few thousand to one population over us, not by a long shot. Plus, 85% of the Iraq population is in favor of the US' presence there. Both of our economies benefit from this presence. The towliebans and saddomizers' numbers will run out, and I personally am betting that it will not last longer than 3-5 years. From every angle you look at it, we have the upper hand, and the only exception is the filfthy hippies spreading their toe cheese on the streets of DC and doing anything in their power to bring down the home front because they want to prove some assanine point.

[rcgamer]

Hah, well I already hate downloading albums instead of buying CDs. Now I simply laugh. Let's have the twelve year-olds and the 30something coffee table crew have their fucking downloads at $5 a song. Fuck them. All of them.

BUY CDs YOU RETARDS.

maybe when your paying for them out of your own pocket you will see things differently, its easy to talk shit when your digging in daddys wallet for the money. they started this service to entice the filesharers to obtain music legally (wich i presume is what you want) then turn and price it higher than anyone would pay. typical money grubbing bastards.

[Xade]

Hurr hurr, I have a job incidentally, earning £7.35/$13 an hour, which isn't bad for somebody 17. Enough of your cynicism, wiseguy.

And christ, if I'm a 'punk' kid paying for all these albums, full-time working goons can comfortably pay for their own, can they not?

[rcgamer]

well , punk (your word) kids dont have bills to pay, like rent , electricity, etc. And most of the filesharers are kids not adults. The point is that itunes offered a legit way for people to obtain music they want at an easy to swallow price. now the music association tells them that its not enough to get the music legally , they have to pay ridiculous prices as well. I would expect this to be another move by the music association that blows up in their faces. its only going to push more people to get the music illegally.

[smegforbrain]

FYI, iTunes isn't the one jacking up the prices on these songs. It is, once again, the companies within the RIAA.

In fact, Apple is losing money on the actual songs.

[rcgamer]

"now the music association tells them that its not enough to get the music legally , they have to pay ridiculous prices as well. I would expect this to be another move by the music association that blows up in their faces. its only going to push"

[Xade]

Alright, okay. Let me put it like this: with regards to full albums why download them if you can buy them on hard CD?

Let's face it downloaded MP3s are not CD quality, and can be pirated relatively easily with know-how. I mean all you need to do is play the damn song and record soundcard output (some copy protection ?!). If anything legal MP3s will be more detrimental to the record industry than not offering them at all.

Furthermore, mp3s are restricted to computers and (nasty) mp3 stereos, whereas the compact disc is more user-friendly, EASIER to copy-protect and is CHEAPER in terms of whole albums.

So why the big fuss over MP3s being sold? It's a waste of time...

[Clements]

The truth is that people regularly pirate literally thousands of pounds worth of Albums off P2P networks (my uncle boasts that he has the entire top 10 at almost any given time) and all it costs them is ~30p per disc, the quality difference can only be detected by bats, takes minutes to download on broadband to download a whole album and it is in fact very easy to burn mp3s to CDs and make them work in most CD players. You can even download the Album covers and print them off.

People would probably rather download an album in next to no time at all for free than pay £14.99 for it given the choice. I can't see how buying an Album can be cheaper than pirating. I don't care for music much so I have no opinion.

[smegforbrain]

It's a simple fact that, regardless of how it's done, people are actually willing to pay for music.

As hard as that is to believe. :)

CD's take space, and as time goes by, space becomes more of a commodity. That is why mp3s are so great - I can store thousands of them in the space of what 2-3 cd cases take. And I don't have to change cd's, the sound quality is good enough for me.

Places like Yahoo are offering "games on demand" , where you download the games you want to play. It's a great concept for those that have broadband - I'm sure the ability to rent movies this way could take off before long as well.

Ebooks are going to become more popular as time goes by as well. Hell, my book collection takes up more space than anything else in my apartment (I have some 500-odd paperback novels). Some day, I may just decide that having it all in ebook format is the way to go.

[Xade]

I wasn't arguing that buying CDs was cheaper than pirating mp3s, but it is comparable to BUYING albums on mp3 when the most I pay for my albums is £8.99, and usually £5.99.

In any case, I don't think that you're going to impress many people with your 'big' mp3 collection in comparison to the guy who has 1,200 proper albums.

And CDs take up practically no space, and do not warrant choosing mp3s over them because of this reason (unless you live in some miniature septic tank or something).

Plus quality, plus packaging, plus compatibility. Buying CDs will ALWAYS be a better option than buying mp3 albums on iTunes or something...

[smegforbrain]

In any case, I don't think that you're going to impress many people with your 'big' mp3 collection in comparison to the guy who has 1,200 proper albums.


Probably not. But I never said that's the purpose of a large mp3 collection either. It's convenience, it's cheaper, etc.



And CDs take up practically no space, and do not warrant choosing mp3s over them because of this reason (unless you live in some miniature septic tank or something).


Practically no space? Try sitting a few hundred of them around and see how much space they take up. It does add up.

I mean, in a week, I'm flying out to Hawaii on vacation for a week. 8 hour trip. I can take a few dozen cd's in a case that I'll have to dig through everytime I want to listen to something different.

Or I could have an iPod.

No, I don't own an iPod, but the convenience of having it is immense.


Plus quality, plus packaging, plus compatibility.

Quality is arguable, not everybody is into packaging, and alot of new cd players can play mp3s or burned cd's. You're not going to win the argument on these merits. :)


Buying CDs will ALWAYS be a better option than buying mp3 albums on iTunes or something...

For you it may be. But not for alot of other people.

Listen man, stores are already going out of business because they can't compete with online stores.
Tower Records recently filed for Chapter 11 iirc. CD's take space in a store, and more space in warehouses.

But with an mp3, you just need one copy of the song. You can fit a warehouse of cd's onto a single server.
It's the future of music whether you like it or not.

[Xade]

If we're talking about portability, granted mp3 and the iPod rules the school; hell I OWN ONE. But having mp3 as the source medium instead of compact disc is soul-less.

Furthemore, you're VASTLY limited as to how many mp3 albums you can buy online, and THAT is irrefutable. How many 60's rarities are ready and waiting to be bought online? Verrrrrrrry few indeeeeed. And how much would these albums cost should you come across them? A great deal.

Now, consider the *cunning* idea of buying CDs and converting them to mp3 for your iPod, while retaining the cd itself. That way you have the CD and the lovely mp3 to put on your iPod. Or whatever. You can even put the CDs in a trunk when you're done with them if you're that space-frenzied.

The mp3s you convert to are NOT copy or ID limited, and you have both an mp3 and cd for the price of the CD. Amazing...................

In any case, try telling any major label to ditch CDs for mp3 and you'll get laughed to in the face, or punched, or worse. Legal mp3 right now is pointless and a joke.

Face it: why pay the SAME for one set of restricted mp3s when you can buy the compact disc for the same price? Answer that.

Incidentally, Tower are only having trouble because of their own fucking bloated prices. HMV in England may give a different side of the coin.

[smegforbrain]

But having mp3 as the source medium instead of compact disc is soul-less.

Generally, I agree with you - I prefer hard copy just for the sake of having a hard copy.


Furthemore, you're VASTLY limited as to how many mp3 albums you can buy online, and THAT is irrefutable.

But what you're talking about what is still emerging technology. Your argument won't hold up in the long run as more and more artists, new and old, put their music online. :)


The mp3s you convert to are NOT copy or ID limited, and you have both an mp3 and cd for the price of the CD. Amazing

Not really when you consider that the average price per album online is still around $10, while in stores it is in excess of $15.

So that means I can buy 3 albums online for every two in stores.


In any case, try telling any major label to ditch CDs for mp3 and you'll get laughed to in the face, or punched, or worse. Legal mp3 right now is pointless and a joke.

For starters, iTunes doesn't use mp3s.

Two, these companies are waking up to the fact that they are the ones that have been beaten senseless.

Nobody is ditching cd's for mp3s any time soon, but it will happen over time.


Face it: why pay the SAME for one set of restricted mp3s when you can buy the compact disc for the same price? Answer that.

See above. You're not using facts.

Facts: mp3s/other online services cut overhead, they cut production costs, and the cut the necessity for storage and warehousing.


Incidentally, Tower are only having trouble because of their own fucking bloated prices.

The same bloating prices that the RIAA forces upon them to be able to make money and stay in business.

Tower Records can buy half a million of Album X. Wal-Mart can buy 2 million of Album X, and therefore save that much more money and still be able to charge somewhat cheaper prices.

All in all, until cd prices hover around the $10 range, online albums will be cheaper.

[smegforbrain]

Btw, unless we move away from the "my opinion is fact" stuff, I'm done with this conversation, as I believe I've sufficiently made my point(s) already.

Opinion: CD is better than mp3.
Fact: iTunes is cheaper than your average music store. Your average music store has a better selection than iTunes (although there are more services than just iTunes available as well).

[AlphaWolf]

Opinion: CD is better than mp3.


That is not an opinion at all. It is a fact that MP3 is a lossy audio codec, it is not true to the original copy and some people, myself included, can quite well hear the difference. Although most don't notice the difference, MP3 sounds like crap compared to the original to me (comparable to that of a cassette tape,) and its the main reason I don't use P2P networks. Sure its ok to listen to, but if I pay for music, I don't want it to sound like its coming from 70's technology. If they offered it in a lossless audio codec, that would sure be nice.

[Vegetable]

Funny how things go off-topic so quickly.