I'm updating my GFX card, please help me.

[jessman1988]

Hey, I know that a GeForce 3 is the recommended card for Project 64, but the best I can find on short notice is a $64 GeForce 2 XM or whatever it's called. It supports GPU and it has 64mb on it, and since I don't have an AGP slot, this is the cheapest and best card I can find. Can someone tell me if this card supports OpenGL 1.2, and if I'll get even remotely better results than with my S3 Graphics ProSavage. I know nothing about 3D FX and this is the ONLY card I can get my hands on. It's on Layaway right now, and I wanna know if it's worth it. PLEASE help me, as I'm getting very frustraited.

[dnrobs]

seems like we been here before youre specs are very modern ,agp has been around for 5 years or so ide be amazed if you didnt have an agp port to be honest i cant think of k7 motherboards without them.i may be wrong tho hopefully someone can come along and give you an 100 percent answer.geoforce cards arnt 3dfx but direct draw.you have had several answers to your posts try doing some research rather than continually repeating questions
feel free to correct me if im wrong tho

[jessman1988]

Please listen to me. I just want to know if a GeForce 2 will make n64 games look or play the LEAST bit better. No one is helping, and you didn't even answer my question. Also, I wanted to know if any new games out there support GeForce 2, because my GFX card can't even play new games! I know that a GeForce 2 is old, but I'm only asking if it'll be enough to enjoy n64 emulation!

[fivefeet8]

Also, I wanted to know if any new games out there support GeForce 2, because my GFX card can't even play new games! I know that a GeForce 2 is old, but I'm only asking if it'll be enough to enjoy n64 emulation!

Most of the newer games still will run on Geforce2's with a lot of the graphical effects disabled. Mainly Pixel shader effects. Some PC games that are out now will not run on anything less than a Dx8 video card though. In those games, your geforce2mx will not run them. Silent Hill 3 PC is an example.

For N64 emulation though, the card will do fine with the right plugins and config. It will do a lot better than your S3 card.

[jessman1988]

Thank YOU so much for being a truely helpful person. Because I live in Alaska, I'll easily be able to buy $200+ GFX card when I get my yearly Dividend/Permenant fund check, but meanwhile, I just had a couple more questions. First of all, are there any newer GeForce cards out there which are for PCI? (NOT AGP) Does the GF2 support OpenGL 1.2? Also, will a GeForce2 play games including Max Payne, GTA3, Midnight Club 2, etc. at all? If not, what new games can play with a GF2? And finally, will a GeForce2 play Zelda at a 1024x768 resolution without MAJOR slowdown? (if you look at my other system specs, this SHOULD be possible). My current card barely plays games at a constant 60FPS at 640x480! Thanks again, and please, someone reply for a final time, so I can be assured.


P.S. Isn't an S3 ProSavage a DX8 GFX card? And how come a GF2 isn't either? If my current card can use DX9 GFX, then how come a GF2 can't use DX8? Sorry if I sound like a n00b...

[co_p3rth]

well, i still use my geforce2, and currently, it can play zelda at full speed on 1024x768 resolution and with most other games, i guess it's support opengl 1.2, not sure tho, it can play max payne 2, since i played it now,most new games still playable juat like fivefeet8 said. well, it plays fifa2004,nba live 2004, worms3d(is this new?),GTA3 and vice city is fully playable, midnight club2 also, so no worry mate :)

[Clements]

And finally, will a GeForce2 play Zelda at a 1024x768 resolution without MAJOR slowdown? (if you look at my other system specs, this SHOULD be possible). My current card barely plays games at a constant 60FPS at 640x480! Thanks again, and please, someone reply for a final time, so I can be assured.

Easily. You might be able to get no slowdown at 1280 X 1024 with the right config. You'll get over 80fps in Zelda if you turn the limiter off (that's what I got with my MX card, although I had the GeForce4 MX440 which is just a faster GeForce2 MX essentially).


P.S. Isn't an S3 ProSavage a DX8 GFX card? And how come a GF2 isn't either? If my current card can use DX9 GFX, then how come a GF2 can't use DX8? Sorry if I sound like a n00b...

The GF2 isn't DX8 because it isn't a very good card, just a cheap budget card. Saying that, it's far better than any Savage card you can buy. The DX features only really matter in PC games. And the GeForce2 MX supports OpenGL 1.2. The MX cards are below spec because they lack a small collection of features that Jabo's plugin requires. That's why it says GeForce3, but don't be put off, I can name only one glitch that occurs with certain MX cards, so you'll be fine.

[jessman1988]

So, Clements, you're saying that games like Conker won't have the white head glitch, and Zelda games should have properly colored fairies and the action icon will be readable with a GF2, and Mario's head actually won't be black? I'm not expecting to get FLAWLESS results with this temporary solution card, but as long as I can play games at a high res without the above glitches, I'll be EXTREMELY happy. Thank you very much for your helpfulness as not many people tend to care about the little guy, lol. You've risen my hopes, and I just hope that SOME pc games out there will work with this decision I'm making. Thanks again for everything, and I hope to be as helpful as you in these forums some day.

P.S.I'm sorry for asking ANOTHER question, but I've never installed a GFX card before. The closest I've done is installing RAM. Is a card as simple to install as RAM if you know where it goes? Also, if I have more than one slot, can/do I take out my old card and replace it with my new one, or do I just install the GF2 in the second slot? And FINALLY, if I install the GF2 in a secondary slot, how do I select it for pc games/emulation? I'm worried that my games will still MAKE me use the S3 card instead of the GF2. Thanks again, and I don't intentionally try to be a pest.

P.P.S. Your smiling avatar may frighten small children, but you're an awsome help, ha ha ha. (j/k man, I respect you.)

[co_p3rth]

dunno bout conkers, but zelda, mario,and most of other games will have nice gfx, fairies has correct display, mario head is normal red :) it's very good for ur temp. gfx card :) so i say, for zelda,mario64 or kart, and mario party, its flawless tho :) no need to worry hehe

[dukenukem]

You will never see that white crap again for project64,i know because i bought a geforce2mx200 pci and it works great for n64 and psx emulation,fixed the whit link and other errors due to my crappy integrated 4meg agp ati rage pro turbo.

[jessman1988]

YAY! There's others like me out there! You guys BOTH have GF2 cards!!!!!! And co_p3rth, you have the EXACT card that I'm going to pick up!!!! (Sorry about the overexcitement but you guys have made so FRIGGIN' HAPPY!!!!)I just wanna ask you guys ONE thing: what semi-new and popular games are there that you guys know of that work with a GF2? Thanks again everyone, because I NEVER thought so many people would help me out! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

P.S. dukenukem, your pc can play n64 games good? I remember having a 466MHZ Celeron, and it couldn't do squat! That GF2 must be SOME card, huh?

[co_p3rth]

YAY! There's others like me out there! You guys BOTH have GF2 cards!!!!!! (sorry about my overexcitement, but I'm SO FRIGGIN' HAPPY!) I just wanna ask you guys ONE thing: what semi-new and popular games are there that you guys know of that work with a GF2? Thanks again everyone, because I NEVER thought so many people would help me out! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


hey, i told u already lol :P (but mine is agp, not much different i guess ?)
list of my games that works great:
GTA 3 and Vice City
FIFA 2004
NBA live 2004
Worms3d
Max Payne 2
sims series :P
and so on... :)
oh yeah, age of mythology the titans and C&C generals (Zero hour) works also

[Trotterwatch]

An FX 5200 PCI is available too, which whilst not a top of the range card, should prove better than a GF2 PCI. With some luck they'll be in the same price range.

If not yeah the GF2 PCI will be fine for N64 emulation, for PC games though it'll be left wanting on all but low resolutions/detail levels (older games will be fine on higher resolutions).


P.S.I'm sorry for asking ANOTHER question, but I've never installed a GFX card before. The closest I've done is installing RAM. Is a card as simple to install as RAM if you know where it goes?

Much more simple IMO... and that's saying something, hehe

[co_p3rth]

yup, it's very simple, if u're using AGP, there's one slot that has a (brown colour?) sorry 4 my english, it's easier than RAM tho, or just the same :)

[Smiff]

i haven't read the whole thread but i wouldn't get below a GF3 for N64 emulation... looking slightly ahead WRT video plugins pixel shaders and blend modes.

[Doomulation]

Installing a gfx card is very simple. In this case it's pci, you put it into one of the pci slots of push it down until it stucks. It's not much more than that :) and I guess I needn't tell you to be careful since you've installed memory before.

[jessman1988]

co_p3rth, are you SURE that your GF2 is an AGP? Because you have a GF2MX 400 64MB, and that's exactly what my PCI is gonna be. And how come some of you say emulation is GREAT with a GF2 while others say it's not good enough? I'm confused. And also, how can one of you say that GTA3 and Max Payne 2 runs great, while some of you say I'll have to play it at a low res? I'm really getting mixed feelings when you guys all say different things...Can someone clear this up so I won't be left guessing how it's going to work?

Last thing, I still don't know how to use my new GFX card once it's installed. I'd like to keep my old card in for some reason, but if I put the GF2 in the second slot, how do I use it with games/emulation? Will my pc MAKE me use my S3, or will I be able to configure my default GFX card? I've never even used a secondary card before, and just want to know what to expect one it's installed. Also, will it hurt anything if I DO take out my old card and replace it with my new old? Thanks again everyone for replying, but so many different people responded that I can't personally thank all of you, lol.

[jessman1988]

well, i still use my geforce2, and currently, it can play zelda at full speed on 1024x768 resolution and with most other games, i guess it's support opengl 1.2, not sure tho, it can play max payne 2, since i played it now,most new games still playable juat like fivefeet8 said. well, it plays fifa2004,nba live 2004, worms3d(is this new?),GTA3 and vice city is fully playable, midnight club2 also, so no worry mate :)

co_p3rth, I'm sorry for asking the pc games question twice, but I JUST saw this post. (For some reason I missed it, lol)

[RJARRRPCGP]

Thank YOU so much for being a truely helpful person. Because I live in Alaska, I'll easily be able to buy $200+ GFX card when I get my yearly Dividend/Permenant fund check, but meanwhile, I just had a couple more questions. First of all, are there any newer GeForce cards out there which are for PCI? (NOT AGP) Does the GF2 support OpenGL 1.2? Also, will a GeForce2 play games including Max Payne, GTA3, Midnight Club 2, etc. at all? If not, what new games can play with a GF2? And finally, will a GeForce2 play Zelda at a 1024x768 resolution without MAJOR slowdown? (if you look at my other system specs, this SHOULD be possible). My current card barely plays games at a constant 60FPS at 640x480! Thanks again, and please, someone reply for a final time, so I can be assured.


P.S. Isn't an S3 ProSavage a DX8 GFX card? And how come a GF2 isn't either? If my current card can use DX9 GFX, then how come a GF2 can't use DX8? Sorry if I sound like a n00b...

Yes, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time won't have any major slowdowns at 1024x768, with a GeForce2 MX as long as the processor is at least 700 mhz.

[jessman1988]

Thanks for the reply, but that question has already been answered
two-fold. I just need help on clearing the air. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, some people say that a GF2 is great for n64 emulation, and many pc games, while others say that it's horrible. Can someone PLEASE tell me what is true, as it can't be both really good and really bad. I'm just gonna buy this card and use it until I can afford a MUCH better PCI card. It's not like it would be easy to get an AGP slot installed.

Also, can someone PLEASE answer this? I don't know what to do once I get my card. I can install it no problem, but please, just read this whole thing.


Last thing, I still don't know how to use my new GFX card once it's installed. I'd like to keep my old card in for some reason, but if I put the GF2 in the second slot, how do I use it with games/emulation? Will my pc MAKE me use my S3, or will I be able to configure my default GFX card? I've never even used a secondary card before, and just want to know what to expect one it's installed. Also, will it hurt anything if I DO take out my old card and replace it with my new old? Thanks again everyone for replying, but so many different people responded that I can't personally thank all of you, lol.

[Clements]

The GeForce2 MX will work OK but only OK with N64 emulation. Basically a no thrills card. You'll get fullspeed and good quality, BUT: I don't think the card has any reasonable Anti-Aliasing so the games will have jaggies, and enabling the level of AA you do have will kill the framerate. PSX emulation will be slow if you use max settings- you must turn them down. PC games will be quite choppy and bad looking with no environmental bumpmapping or any Pixel Shader support. Forget about Ansiotropic filtering.

Save your cash for a new mobo and/or proper graphics card.

Having a PC with 2400+ and GeForce2 MX PCI is a "ultra bottleneck" in the same way as having a 800MHz processor with a 256MB ATi Radeon 9800 XT. Pointless IMO. Balance your specs out and don't waste money on this card. You've suffered with the bad accuracy of the Savage, lets not see you suffer with the bad speed and complete lack of features with the MX.

Wow, I'm sounding like Tagrineth. She was right all along... :P

Yet another Techtalk thread in the PJ forum!

/Boots to TechTalk

Edit: as an answer to your quote thing which I forgot to reply to, just disable your (what appears to be unremovable on-board) graphics in your BIOS, and select your PCI one as primary. I think that's about right, just search Google for a tutorial, or better yet, get someone with experience to install the thing for you if thats the way you want to go. If the Savage isn't on-board, then it can be removed, and it may leave a vacant AGP slot behind if your motherboard is decent.

[jessman1988]

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[Clements]

Sorry to bash the GeForce2 MX so much, but I've gotten used to my card and can now see the disadvantages of MX cards quite clearly. If you true want to use the MX as a quick fix for N64 emulation, do it, as the choice is fully up to you. I was just making sure you knew what you were signing up to before you spent your cash.

And as said earlier, you can wave good-bye to all your black Mario heads and White Links and all sorts. See, its not all bad!

[Trotterwatch]

Yeah, it's a good thing to get. Just something such as an FX 5200 PCI would probably be a better bet (even if it isn't a speed demon by todays standards).

If the GF2 MX PCI is the only thing you can get, and it's affordable then go for it. It should be a big improvement over the Savage.

[Tagrineth]

Yeah, it's a good thing to get. Just something such as an FX 5200 PCI would probably be a better bet (even if it isn't a speed demon by todays standards).

If the GF2 MX PCI is the only thing you can get, and it's affordable then go for it. It should be a big improvement over the Savage.

Hell no, a GeForce FX 5200 PCI is even _slower_ than most of the old MXes. =|

[jessman1988]

I'm sorry everyone for being such a n00b ass in my latest posts, but I'm just frustraited when you guys say an extremely good thing about the GF2, and then suddenly jump to bad things. I just doesn't make sense. I got a VERY important question though. When you look at my OTHER specs, what NEW GFX card would you guys recommend EXACTLY, and how much is it? (Remember that I can only use PCI). Also, what place sells it? Thanks guys. I appreciate you all helping me this much. I've NEVER been such a n00b in anything before, lol.

[Clements]

Hell no, a GeForce FX 5200 PCI is even _slower_ than most of the old MXes. =|
The speed of the FX 5200 is wildly viable. In some situations it can catch the Ti4200. In most others, it is marginally faster than the GeForce4 MX440 or marginally slower.

But the FX 5200 does have all the major features of its older brothers so at least the modern PC games will look right (just slow). It'll be a nice card for N64 emulation, and a fairly competent PC gaming card (accuracy-wise), but it'll be slow compared to its bigger brothers, and the DX8 GeForces. Can't complain for the price though, as David Dickinson would say, "Cheap as Chips!"

Edit to jessman1988: I'm with Trotterwatch- I'd recommend the PCI variant of this card for you over the GeForce2 MX. More features, more speed, comes in PCI, cheap price. Enjoy.

[Trotterwatch]

Hell no, a GeForce FX 5200 PCI is even _slower_ than most of the old MXes. =|
Even slower, Wow... is that possible? lol

How much slower is it? Any benchmarks that compare the MXs and FXs (5200) of this world?

[Clements]

I think the cases of the FX 5200 being slower usually have heavy Pixel Shaders involved, while the GeForce MX 440 skips them, the FX 5200 does them, so results in a speed loss. Not a fair comparison IMO.

It's like comparing two plugins- one with framebuffer, one without, and the one without being faster but doesn't emulate the FB, but the other one doesn't skip it and as a result is slower. But we all know which is the better plugin- the one that does the FB.

Wow! An N64 plugin analogy! Must be a first! :P

[Tagrineth]

btw, just fyi, when the 5200 uses the DX9 effects nVidia touts, it DIES. Like no more than single-digit fps at 640x480 with no AA/AF.

Hell, even Tomb Raider AOD, while still allowing Pixel Shaders 2.0 for the 5600 and nVidia cards in that range, auto-disables PS2.0 for the 5200 and 5200Ultra. >_> How sad is THAT?

And jessman: Unfortunately, graphics cards are such a mixed bag it's really irritating. There is no single 'One Size Fits All' graphics card if you take cost into account.

TBH, I don't even know if the newest Radeons are available in PCI, which is quite depressing. PCI is a sorely neglected form factor... so basically, the FX5200 is pretty much the ONLY path you have. :( Sad but true. You MIGHT be able to get the FX5200 Ultra, which is already a pretty nice step up from a non-U.

[Trotterwatch]

btw, just fyi, when the 5200 uses the DX9 effects nVidia touts, it DIES. Like no more than single-digit fps at 640x480 with no AA/AF

Yeah it's a well known fact that this DX9 card shouldn't ever use DX9 unless you want to look at pretty still images ;)

[jessman1988]

DANG! I'm stuck with bad cards, I guess. I just bought this pc in October! Is there any way to "INSTALL" an AGP port into my pc. I'm such a n00b at GFX cards and I'm sorry.

[Clements]

btw, just fyi, when the 5200 uses the DX9 effects nVidia touts, it DIES. Like no more than single-digit fps at 640x480 with no AA/AF.

Hell, even Tomb Raider AOD, while still allowing Pixel Shaders 2.0 for the 5600 and nVidia cards in that range, auto-disables PS2.0 for the 5200 and 5200Ultra. >_> How sad is THAT?

If the FX 5200 worked wonderful in DX9 it would be a bloody miracle @ £50!

Just think if it was true: No need for the £300 Radeon 9800 Pro! You can get superb performance with the 5200 for just £50 at a sixth of the price!

The real truth is, at a sixth of the price you get about a sixth of the performance as I keep saying, you get exacty what you pay for.

It's like slagging off 4p Economy Beans for not tasting as good as Heinz. What do you expect! You paid 4p!

The more cash you are willing to spend the more FPS you will get (and consequently, the larger your penis is*). For £50, you don't get very much, but what you do get is worth that £50 that you shelled out. The FX 5200 will never out perform a 9800 Pro for example, as it is a fraction of the price.

I wouldn't consider the performance of the Radeon 9800 Pro/FX 5900 Ultra in DX9 to be that good anyway, barely 60fps with any kind of filtering from what I've seen. Hardly a showstopper worth £300.

[*Males only obviously]

[Tagrineth]

Clements, what I meant about the 5200's DX9 performance is, that the miserable speed isn't even playable to the most vicious masochists. And yet, people still list it as a selling point for the card. O.o

And the Radeon 9800 Pro is just fine in DX9 - Half-Life 2 gets over 60fps at 1024x768, and AF shouldn't have much of a performance hit at all. There's nothing wrong with that. At least it's better than an original GeForce3 playing a DX8 game. =)

[co_p3rth]

like i told u jess, GF2 works great with those games, even at 800x600x32 resolution, the gfx still looks gr8, but yes, compared to GeforceFx or other better than that, GF2 shouldn't be used FSAA, or some advanced option like that,but those games still works great with it, with good gfx, no glitch at all :)
so no worry mate, its all depends on u, if u could buy a better card, buy it, if not, this options is still good for u :)

[jollyrancher]

The more cash you are willing to spend the more FPS you will get (and consequently, the larger your penis is*).

You've got it backwards... when guys are desperate to prove themselves through external measures like a fancy car or something it's more likely because of an insecure need to compensate for other "inadequacies." At least that's how the jokes go.

[Matata]

DANG! I'm stuck with bad cards, I guess. I just bought this pc in October! Is there any way to "INSTALL" an AGP port into my pc. I'm such a n00b at GFX cards and I'm sorry.

There is no way to get another AGP slot, unless you change your motherboard you´re stuck with a PCI slot.

[jessman1988]

Yeah, I guess I might go to a pc shop and get a new motherboard put in somday.

[jollyrancher]

Like Matata said, you might want to try a PCI graphics card... it should work better than your integrated graphics.

[RJARRRPCGP]

If that's true, I would call it a DirectX 8.1 video card with Nvidia lying about the fact it supports DirectX 9 effects :down:.

Even worse, I saw an ORB benchmark result showing the GeForce FX 5200video card scoring even poorer than my Radeon 9000 Pro 64 MB DDR video card under 3D Mark 2001 SE :down:.


-RJARRRPCGP holds on to his Radeon 9000 Pro 64 MB DDR video card

[Clements]

nVidia should have made that FX 5200 much faster... It has the DX9 features (which is good, the MX budget cards lacked any decent features) but they should have been much faster as these features are completely useless when used.

You can't argue with Tag, because she is right. The card is too slow and too cheap to be considered a true gaming card. I'm sure it would make the ultimate office card though ;) I wouldn't mind these in my Uni computer's instead of the Intel crap they have!