GeForce FX 5900 Ultra / Issues

[Xade]

Right...

Max Payne 2 and GTA: Vice City... both Rockstar games.

I run them both at 1600x1200 and at full detail. For most this is a tad over the top, but for someone who's paid so much for their PC... why not?

Anyway, all is well at about 50-75 fps, (Max Payne seems to have a 75fps cut-off), unless i encounter a particular type of smoke. For example, take the 'Malibu Club' and its' smoggy effect inside.

My framerate drops hugely, down to about 15-20 frames per second, and it shouldn't. Likewise with Max Payne and when I encounter fires with particles.

Any ideas on what's going on? Using the latest 52x drivers, and I know the smoke sections are both DX9 effects...

[Tagrineth]

omg! but I thought the nvididddida cards were supposed to be soooooooo much more stable and super gud than the ati cards! </sarcasm>


Max Payne and GTA don't use any DX9 effects... GTA is a friggin' PS2 game for crying out loud (its rasteriser is the feature-rich equivalent of a bunch of Voodoo1's) and MP is a DX7 PC game (made by REMEDY, not Rockstar).

The GTA problem isn't much of a surprise considering that game is pretty raster-heavy (like most PS2 games)... but the Max Payne one surprises me. Are you using AA or AF at all?

[Xade]

omg! but I thought the nvididddida cards were supposed to be soooooooo much more stable and super gud than the ati cards! </sarcasm>


Max Payne and GTA don't use any DX9 effects... GTA is a friggin' PS2 game for crying out loud (its rasteriser is the feature-rich equivalent of a bunch of Voodoo1's) and MP is a DX7 PC game (made by REMEDY, not Rockstar).

The GTA problem isn't much of a surprise considering that game is pretty raster-heavy (like most PS2 games)... but the Max Payne one surprises me. Are you using AA or AF at all?

Let's set aside our differences in opinion here ;-)

Max Payne 2 and Vice City use some, albeit very minor, DX9 effects. Majority of it is 8.1 though... which makes it even worse that I'm having this damned issue! And yeah, I was aware of the developer of MP2 being being remedy/3d realms, but I meant the publisher (probably a bit of a stupid likeness between the games to point out, admittedly).

I'm using 4X AA and 8XAF. But then this shouldn't be an issue. The card was designed to be used under such circumstances, so what gives? I mean, my specs make up for any processor-heavy tasks...

[Tagrineth]

Try turning off AA and AF and see if it makes a difference in the smoke.

Especially if you're using one of nVidia's infamous xS AA modes... those can get brutal when alpha blending is used heavily (i.e. smoke effects). Smoke already evades all possible occlusion culling (Kyro cards have HUGE problems with it), and if you're doing the extra sampling in the smoke from an xS AA mode, you're just choking the GeForce even more - ESPECIALLY if a DX9 shader is involved.

Try bumping down to 2x AA (Doesn't matter if it's Quincunx) and then no AA, and tell me what happens to performance with those smoke effects.

[Xade]

I didn't turn it off completely, but instead switched it to 'application controlled'. However, Max Payne 2 and Vice City seem to just use the highest af and aa settings that they can get away with if you let them choose themselves, and so there was only marginal improvement. I could try with it switched off altogether, I guess. I really don't want to do that, or lower the resolution, in future though.

Surely other people on here have encountered the same problem running 1600x1200 full detail, right... ?

[Tagrineth]

Just TRY to run them with AA/AF off and see how they run.

For one, though, leaving AA application-controlled is probably resulting in pure Multisampled AA being used - so that would alleviate some of the stress related to supersampling mixed modes.

[vampireuk]

omg! but I thought the nvididddida cards were supposed to be soooooooo much more stable and super gud than the ati cards! </sarcasm>


Come on Tag its about time you learned some English :P

[blight]

would be interesting to see wether the frame rate would still drop as much or maybe even more when it was ran through a DX->GL wrapper (like using winex in linux) ... :P

[fivefeet8]

I'm getting about 50-55 fps in Vice City while in the Malibu Club. All options enabled, 1280x1024(LCD's MAX res), 4xFSAA/8xAF. In Max Payne 2, I'm getting about 60-70 fps with 4xFSAA/8xAF per application at 1280x1024 even when there is Fire and Smoke. I'm using the Beta 53.03 Forcewares.

Max Payne 2 is one of the best looking Dx8 games I've seen to date. I love the Ragdoll effects. ;)

Another great looking Dx8 game is Silent Hill 3. Amazing. http://www.ngemu.com/forums/showpost.php?postid=646027&postcount=420

[Xade]

Right, the results are in...

Using GTA: Vice CIty (didn't try MP2)...

1600x1200 resolution, 85MHz refresh rate, 52.XX ForceWare drivers.

No AA/AF = 60-180 frames/sec [normally] and about 30 frames/sec [Malibu].

4xAA/8xAF= 40-120 frames/sec [normally] and about 30 frames/sec [Malibu].

App. Con. = 70-150 frames/sec [normally] and about 35 frames/sec [Malibu].

Couple of interesting points, too. Firstly, application controlled mode looked totally rubbish, even on that resolution; jagged edges etc. Secondly, the huge frame rate drop only occurs when I look directly at the smoke. If I turn around inside of the Malibu, in the corner of the same smoke room, and look away from it, I get over 100 frames/sec!

Worth saying that even though Fraps states 30 frames/sec tin the Malibu, the picture 'appeared' fairly jerky, hinting that there is some other problem.

Also, I've noticed bad 'ripping' on the screen, where two halves become evident for a split second as the screen doesn't update or whatever.

What is going on here?

[fivefeet8]

Right, the results are in...

Using GTA: Vice CIty (didn't try MP2)...

1600x1200 resolution, 85MHz refresh rate, 52.XX ForceWare drivers.

No AA/AF = 60-180 frames/sec [normally] and about 30 frames/sec [Malibu].

4xAA/8xAF= 40-120 frames/sec [normally] and about 30 frames/sec [Malibu].

App. Con. = 70-150 frames/sec [normally] and about 35 frames/sec [Malibu].

Couple of interesting points, too. Firstly, application controlled mode looked totally rubbish, even on that resolution; jagged edges etc. Secondly, the huge frame rate drop only occurs when I look directly at the smoke. If I turn around inside of the Malibu, in the corner of the same smoke room, and look away from it, I get over 100 frames/sec!

Worth saying that even though Fraps states 30 frames/sec tin the Malibu, the picture 'appeared' fairly jerky, hinting that there is some other problem.

Also, I've noticed bad 'ripping' on the screen, where two halves become evident for a split second as the screen doesn't update or whatever.

What is going on here?

Try removing the "gta_vc.set" in the GTA VC user files directory. Honestly though, I think the game was just ported badly. It's the only game I've had where installing new drivers meant you might need to reinstall the game. Some people have gotten the game to run better by using a new version of a noCD crack. Don't ask where to get it though. Shouldn't be too hard to find anyways. The screen tearing can be attributed to Vsync being turned off. If you enable Vsync, there isn't any tearing, but your performance will go down noticeably.

Why don't you try testing that scene with my settings. 1280x1024, 4xFSAA/8xAF. To see if your getting the same FPS as I am.

[revl8er]

I don't know what the problem is, I have my setting all the way up and it gets full framerate.

[Xade]

My spec is pracrically identical to yours', as well. Damned it! The question, though Mystic, is whether or not you're trying 1600x1200 4xAA and 8xAF, like me...

Maybe I'm just being a little too optimistic, or it's a bug in the game relating to my hardware, or whatever...

Annoying as hell though. Just got back from a break in London, so I'll try what you said and post back tommorow anyway by the way, fivefeet.

[DuDe]

For fuck sakes, it's 1600x1200 with 4xAA and 8xAF. Get a grip, you won't see any damn difference with a bit lower settings.

[Hexidecimal]

For fuck sakes, it's 1600x1200 with 4xAA and 8xAF. Get a grip, you won't see any damn difference with a bit lower settings.

Seriously, I ran both those games on a GeForce 4 MX 440 64 meg at 800x600 full graphic detail and they ran fine, seriuosly, turn it down a little bit.

[Xade]

It's a fair enough comment, but if my card isn't maxing out the current games, what's it going to do when HL2 rolls around, chug at about 640x480 or something? I mean fuck, it's a £400 card, DuDe; you'd be pretty pissed if it was yours'.

[Tagrineth]

It's a fair enough comment, but if my card isn't maxing out the current games, what's it going to do when HL2 rolls around, chug at about 640x480 or something? I mean fuck, it's a £400 card, DuDe; you'd be pretty pissed if it was yours'.

Don't you think 1600x1200 with 4x FSAA - half of which is supersampling! - is a little overboard? I mean, you're essentially rendering 3200x1200 (or 1600x2400, pick one) with 2x MSAA.

[fivefeet8]

I think the point of FSAA was to give us who don't have monitors that can do crazy high resolutions like 1600x1200 and above to play games with less jaggies. If your monitor already does 1600x1200 +, then turn down FSAA. At that resolution it's not gonna make much of a difference visually. Try it at 2xFSAA and 1600x1200.

[DuDe]

I mean fuck, it's a £400 card, DuDe; you'd be pretty pissed if it was yours'.
No, I wouldn`t, because I wouldn't be running games with those settings to begin with, because the text is hardly readable. And you know what, I find it hard to believe that your PC can average 100fps at every other part of MP2 or Vice City, because I doubt that even the GFFX5900U has the fill rate to cope with 1600x1200 with 4xFSAA and 8xAF.

[revl8er]

My spec is pracrically identical to yours', as well. Damned it! The question, though Mystic, is whether or not you're trying 1600x1200 4xAA and 8xAF, like me...

I have them all set the same, but I don't get slow framerate. I have tried this with Max Payne 2, Grand Theft Auto VC, Prince of Persia, Ninja Turtles, and XIII and I still get full framerate. I really don't see the need for the high resoultion though, because it really doesn't make much of a difference. I think it looks fine at 1024x768x32.

[Xade]

It copes at around 60-100 frames a second usually, DuDe... just ask Mystic Gohan. It's just a pain in the ass problem. Anyway, I'm going to try... *shudder*... lowering the resolution now, so... we'll see.

[Tagrineth]

I think the point of FSAA was to give us who don't have monitors that can do crazy high resolutions like 1600x1200 and above to play games with less jaggies. If your monitor already does 1600x1200 +, then turn down FSAA. At that resolution it's not gonna make much of a difference visually. Try it at 2xFSAA and 1600x1200.

Indeed.

In fact, 1280x1024 with 4x AA should in theory look better than 1600x1200 with 2x AA.

::hugs her Radeon - 1024x768 with better quality 4x, perfect in practically everything...::

[fivefeet8]

::hugs her Radeon - 1024x768 with better quality 4x, perfect in practically everything...::

Except for all the alpha textures used in some N64 games and old pc games. ;)

[Tagrineth]

Except for all the alpha textures used in some N64 games and old pc games. ;)

I did say /practically/ everything. =) And aniso helps with that.