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  1. #1
    Moderator Cyberman's Avatar
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    Gnome 3 "issues" (Gnome Shell) has anyone looked at this?

    Gnome desktop I've used since about 2002 under linux. It worked great etc.

    I had heard some misgivings and groanings about Gnome 3.

    I believe I understand why people aren't all that thrilled with it. I moved to Gnome 3 because 'gentoo' comunity moved Gnome to that support as 'stable'

    So I went through and did the emerge, I needed it for some software to work "no biggie" I thought.

    Well it first killed a whole LOT of functionality from Gnome 2 yes it DOES LESS, it also seemed to wipe out all the desktop settings I did have (grrr) no biggie just readd them?

    NO such fortune, they eliminated almost ALL access to bash or setting up your own automation links. Simply put, it sucks, it's frustrating and annoying. I removed my long rant by the way.

    There are several VERY controversial changes. Gnome Shell is annoying, it appears to be written in Javascript, this suggests it has potentially all of the vulunerabilities of WINDOWS DESKTOP and WINDOWS AUTOMATION.

    Why would someone use JAVASCRIPT, (in there right mind that is) for a native application on a system, JAVA kind of works but Javascript has well known (by hackers) issues and forms of attack, so I have numerous questions as why this is considered a good idea (or maybe the programmer only knows Javascript).

    I would have used Python myself but more importantly, I'm not thrilled with anything using Javascript, it's one of the biggest problems with Firefox (if you didn't know). The WC3 has been debating the removal of key words and functionality from Javascript for the last 5 years because of these issues. The big problem for them being that breaks legacy code on the WEB.

    Personally if it's NOT SAFE, don't use it, is my motto. However it seems a LOT of web programmers don't follow such things (see Google advertisers and misc hackers).

    Ok ... so what else is broken, I have things that work simply because I could open nautilous and was able to find some old desktop automation links that I could force to work.

    I had to basically REBUILD most of the automation, again NO direct access or method to RUN a shell made this a pain.

    I forced a way to get shell access (it seems Gnome Shell 'lead' programmer doesn't like people having this) I'm a bit annoyed with them as a consequence.

    Anyone have similiar experience?

    Suggestions for a Gnome alternative?

    It's annoying because I had been using GTK/GTK+ for developement for years but now much of everything Gnome has become frustrated with just a seriously screwed up change over.

    This appears to be a Open Source crap out. Seriously it happened with Xfree86 people tried to twist it in certain ways and well as you can see XFree86 is mostly abandoned and X11 org took over. I think Gnome needs to have the same fix. Gnome probably needs split up into different projects in particular Gnome Shell is really annoying to deal with. It the 'messaging' and notices annoy the crap out of me (I do not need idiot messages thank you why are they on by default?)

    Granted I can understand SOME of what they've done but the other stuff they are doing is similar to getting lost in death valley. Dangerous and going nowhere useful.

    Cyb
    Last edited by Cyberman; February 23rd, 2012 at 04:16. Reason: enabled 'javascript' for editor
    Progress (n.):
    The process through which the Internet has evolved from smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in front of smart terminals.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Recursive (adj):
    see Recursive

  2. #2
    Administrator Martin's Avatar
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    Hmm that's a shame. They really didn't think that through did they?


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  3. #3
    Moderator smcd's Avatar
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    Linux Mint 12 has "MGSE" Mint Gnome Shell Extensions - they might can be easily put onto gentoo? It recovers a lot of useful gnome 2 functionality
    http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851
    https://github.com/linuxmint/MGSE

  4. #4
    Sony battery Toasty's Avatar
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    Tried Xfce? It's currently the Linux desktop I find least annoying. It's also a GTK+-centric environment. Linux Mint is also working on a fork of Gnome 3 called Cinnamon that has piqued my interest, though I haven't tried it yet. (It's still pretty similar to Gnome 3 + MGSE at this point, but some progress has been made.)

  5. #5
    Moderator Cyberman's Avatar
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    I've heard of cinnamon I'll see if it is much different. Don't get me wrong Gnome up to this point has been pretty good.

    The thing that got me confused was all of these weird directions they are going suddenly, Gnome OS for example (yes they wanna make their own OS to run Gnome on?) Then the Gnome shell (I call it Gnome nuts now) thing of course. They seem to be trying to adapt it to different non desktop platforms in weird ways. it's like they suddenly went insane and all have to be put down (LOL). Really the base Gnome distro was pretty good you could get it working on most systems without too much effort and the libraries were portable enough you could stick them on most anything.

    I'll look at cinnamon, I use shell access all the time, if they want 'gnome shell' to be the UI then leave a regular shell for others and let people choose what runs there desk top don't shove it down there throat. GEEZE I had Microsoft shudders for 2 days now (LOL).

    Reminds me of when you get a notification from a company you've done business with for years "we have changed, your customer data has been sold to Bizmark you are now going to be spammed endlessly". Think "Borders" and Barnes and Noble that happened to me, they found my email (notification of when orders came in for some of my tech books) and started spamming me with Barnes and Noble sale garbage, I could never find ANYTHING useful in Barnes and Noble, UGH.

    Back on subject, XFce sounds familiar, I probably ran it eons ago. I got to Gnome desktop circa 2001 to the resent present and suddenly "WTF is this crap" hit me with Gnome Nuts. My desktop reminds me of ... iPhone clone I guess? It has a similiar iconic setup and 'clickyness' with extra idiot bubbles for notification "you've got SPAM" thanks... "you've got files downloaded" thanks... "you've just finished rebuilding 241 files and I thought you wanted to know" ... thanks "you have been idle for 3 minutes should I play solitair?" errr. You get the idea how it gets a bit annoying. It's sort of like Yahoo IM use to be with the big "pop" sounds and a message in the corner of your screen. In fact it reminds me of IM messaging how they set it up, except this is your bloody desktop IM'ing you each time you download a file have a shell sessions automatically close run a cron process or if the earth moon alignment is "good enough" for depilitating ones face (that was a joke although I would not be surprised if they didn't have that message hidden somewhere). Nothing more annoying than reopening your Xsession and have 15 IM style messages telling you what your computer was up to while you were away. (Again "WTF?!")

    Erstwhile It is a shame, I was considering something similiar to what cinanamon is after my 'shell shock' from Gnome shell. However if someone already has something, why not use that (my policy everyone has wheels somewhere just clean up the wheel and use it. Just be sure not to use the square ones is all).

    My thinking is never use Javascript (unsafe and alienates a lot of good programmers), the world isn't a bleeding web and my desktop is definately not a browser damnit

    I've been studying python but haven't had a real app I thought I would use it for, a lot of programs are written in it (FreeCAD and Blender for example). Perhaps a bit of experimentation, I mostly do engineering work and occasionally watch anime on my desktop sometimes reencode video to DVD media for use on my blue ray player (not a PS3). I also still dabble with POVray and such so .. anyhow the point being is why do they think I have an iPAD or iPhone and what's with the 'OS' and weird javascript based apps poping up?

    Has Javascript become the 'defacto' coding language or is it just people are that confused by educational institutions not teach C/C++ anymore? (and what's the deal with that? It's not like C is cobol or some obscure language).

    Cyb
    Progress (n.):
    The process through which the Internet has evolved from smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in front of smart terminals.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Recursive (adj):
    see Recursive

  6. #6
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    At first I thought it was terrible, but after using it for a while it seems like the most polished option right now. The best part of Gnome Shell is being able to launch applications simply by pressing the super key and typing a name partly and pressing enter (or just using alt+f2). This also works for switching to programs that are currently running. Since I make use of different workspaces, the overview makes sense to me. Sadly enough Devil's Pie doesn't work very well with Gnome Shell panels.

    The Mint Shell extensions are not that great. The panel replacement is not as flexible as the Gnome 2 version. My issue with it is that you cannot reorder programs in the panel.

  7. #7
    Moderator smcd's Avatar
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    Personally if you need anything more than twm, you need too much < /trolling > I never liked gnome too much personally, it always had the "we know what's best for you" Apple-esque feeling approach to me. IceWM? Fluxbox/blackbox? Window Maker is finally seeing some attention again apparently. then there's enlightenment, the window manager that just well... may get finished someday?

  8. #8
    Moderator Cyberman's Avatar
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    Well I'll be honest Gnome shell is definately not graceful if things aren't perfect. It appears it throws a tizzy if you don't wipe your old settings out. It also is way too controlling. I use my desktop for what I want to. Not what some idiot who thinks they know what I use it for. By the way it broke totem linkages worked fine in Gnome 2 now it's broken. I also noticed they aren't using unix majic cookies, which is kind of strange. I'm not sure if they are using permissions even. I don't want to waste time on it to be blunt, I don't have time to 'fix' software that behaves like a Nazi.

    I use my system for ME to use my system, not for some person who 'thinks' they know what I want to do to screw with it. Gnome should be an enabler not a hinderance and now it meets my boot to it's head. I don't want to waste time with Gnome shell etc. Gnome 3 and on aren't in the forecast of useable window manager for me. It's quite a deviation from Gnome's original concept along with a lot of other things, a real shame but everything has got to end sometime, I guess. The Gnome Nazi's just have to go.



    Cyb
    Progress (n.):
    The process through which the Internet has evolved from smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in front of smart terminals.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Recursive (adj):
    see Recursive


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  9. #9
    Moderator smcd's Avatar
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    Here ya go - http://mate-desktop.org/about/ it's a fork of gnome 2!

  10. #10
    Moderator Cyberman's Avatar
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    I've been toying with enlightenment. I compared it to 'gnome' nuts. Gnomecalc for example does not deallocate unused memory. Gnome calc is just a calculator type app. Now windows Calculator I think uses about 11megs and that was a big "WTF". However Gnomecalc I caught using 200megs of RAM that was a bigger "WTF". I am rebuilding enlightenment at the moment hence why I know about gnome calc. eVince is a PDF viewer that works fairly well but it's a bit of a memory pig (sigh) It eats like about 50meg+ per PDF. There are some definite things I like about Enlightenment, but I've gotten a bit lazy because of Gnome's handy nautilous. I suppose I'll just have to live with that huh?

    I am interested in Evas for the canvas. This links into my 'diatrib' on Open Hardware. I believe there is MUCH to be learned from Enlightenment on 'how to do a desktop'

    Anyhow thanks for the input smcd I did look at it. I have been busy trying to keep up with .. life (mutter).

    Cyb
    Progress (n.):
    The process through which the Internet has evolved from smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in front of smart terminals.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Recursive (adj):
    see Recursive

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