Dolphin on Xbox

[Fgoaty]

and might i add.................................


So why does a two-year-old console architecture like the Xbox, sold for 200 bucks in KB Toys, kick a modern PC's butt for gaming?

1. The PC starts off with a huge bandwidth disadvantage because of the demands of its display technology.
2. The Xbox has an incredibly powerful video architecture.
3. The Xbox CPU is not burdened with the baggage of running a giant memory and CPU consuming OS.
4. Every Xbox comes with a great standard video chip, but most consumer PC's are sold with a crippled video chip, which drags down the whole PC game market.
5. A shared memory architecture between the CPU and GPU lets both processors help with graphics' performance, while even the fastest AGP bus on the PC is a bottleneck.

The next time somebody tells you an Xbox is just a chopped-down PC, show them these words! They couldn't be more wrong!"


Source: CPU - Computer Power User - Alex St. John - February 2003.

 

[bohdy]

This guy is a hoot.

 

[Fgoaty]

This guy is a hoot.

thanks, i love it when i prove myself right and i end up with silly comments.

 

[sytaylor]

and might i add.................................


So why does a two-year-old console architecture like the Xbox, sold for 200 bucks in KB Toys, kick a modern PC's butt for gaming?

1. The PC starts off with a huge bandwidth disadvantage because of the demands of its display technology.
2. The Xbox has an incredibly powerful video architecture.
3. The Xbox CPU is not burdened with the baggage of running a giant memory and CPU consuming OS.
4. Every Xbox comes with a great standard video chip, but most consumer PC's are sold with a crippled video chip, which drags down the whole PC game market.
5. A shared memory architecture between the CPU and GPU lets both processors help with graphics' performance, while even the fastest AGP bus on the PC is a bottleneck.

The next time somebody tells you an Xbox is just a chopped-down PC, show them these words! They couldn't be more wrong!"


Source: CPU - Computer Power User - Alex St. John - February 2003.

1) buy a tv out capeable video card and go enjoy blur vision then
2) but a Radeon 9800XT running on an nforce 3 doesn't?! PAH!
3) Where'd you get that? It runs a cut down windows.. but lets do some maths, for a gaming machine the minimum anyone should have is 512mb of ram, and you could load a few heavy background programs to take account of their n00bishness, and you've still got far mroe free ram than the XBOX, never mind the ~128mb video mem.
4) Thats why games come with options and sliders.. try maxing out a few pc games and doing comparisons
5) A bottleneck that can still out perform the xbox at anything graphically..

BOOYA

 

[Tweakster]

thanks, i love it when i prove myself right and i end up with silly comments.

yeah right are u for real or just a little bit behind in technical terms first of alllmost every game that is produced now days for the pc plattform uses every dx8-9 abillety and second why is it that allmost every game relleased for the xbox later coverted to the pc allways looks bettre higher rez textures bettre resolution etc is it cuz the xbox great advantage in hardware...well i think not allso there are a couple of games that is going to be relleased for the xbox that will be scaled down to be able to cope with the low specs of the machine, i will only name a few doom 3 farcry btw take a look at farcry and tell me what graphical effects that are missing if u compare it to some of the bettre titles on the i have been ripped of by microsoft g**box get some flech on your legs before u open your mouth in the future allso i would like to see the xbox run if it would be possible a couple of tests with the latest installment of 3dmark lmao

 

[sytaylor]

My god tweakster. I beg thee to use some punctuation, or at least seperate out sentances with a few lines breaks here and there. I can't read that post without going crosseyed!

 

[Fgoaty]

That is the most childish statement i have ever heard.
thank-you for the enlightenment into "Doofus Vision"
what you just told me has nothing to back you up,

http://www.theblowhole.com/xbox/xboxvspc.html
http://www.theblowhole.com/xbox/xboxvspc.html
http://www.theblowhole.com/xbox/xboxvspc.html

read that, it explains perfectly what im trying to say, and the statements are taken from a guy who runs a technical website for pcs,

may be if you grow up, stop saying BOOYAA? and open your eyes, you can actually see your talking bullshit.


and about the porting question, hardly any decent games have been ported to pc besides halo, but thats a first generation xbox game which hardly utiliesed the xbox. halo looks like zelda the wind waker compared to steel battalion or halo 2.

far cry doesnt even use bump mapping let alone pixel shading,? so what are you talking about?
well from the looks of this:-

http://www.farcry-thegame.com/ss/image21.jpg

it looks terrible.
compared to this:-

http://www.game-revolution.com/previews/screens/xbox/halo_2/halo_21b.jpg

http://www.game-revolution.com/previews/screens/xbox/halo_2/halo_24b.jpg


HOW IN HELL CAN YOU BEAT THIS???

http://www.gaudenbat.com/pictures/SentIn/images/halo 2.jpg

----------------------------------



and we're talking about emulation here not super games....
im just saying it will be able to run Dolphin, i mean you have to agree?

 

[Tweakster]

That is the most childish statement i have ever heard.
thank-you for the enlightenment into "Doofus Vision"
what you just told me has nothing to back you up,

http://www.theblowhole.com/xbox/xboxvspc.html
http://www.theblowhole.com/xbox/xboxvspc.html
http://www.theblowhole.com/xbox/xboxvspc.html

and we're talking about emulation here not super games....
im just saying it will be able to run Dolphin, i mean you have to agree?

We will just have to see about the emulation but the fact remains yet that u still comared the specs of a pc to the xbox and the xbox just hasent got the same workload as the pc in terms of textures resolution etc and no if it takes a kick ass ps system to emulate the gamecube i think that the xbox will have a damn hard time but maby with some really good optz we will wait and see...

 

[ZDragon]

The Far Cry Demo already looks better than any XBox game. Blargh. If you haven't played it yet, you also can't judge the game.

Fgoaty, let's just make this clear:

1.) If you just want to play with your PC, an console may be a better choice. I do absolutely EVERYTHING with my comp. So the talk about the costs of a PC vs. XBox are completely off-topic. So we are talking about HIGH-END PCs here. High-End PC vs. High-End console. Even if the XBox is two years old, if M$ doesn't release a new one, it is high-end, don't you agree?
2.) A PC can *also* run on the XBox resolution... ever heard of the mighty thing called "Video out"? Hearing you talk like that, I suppose not.
3.) See, a PC can handle such high resolutions. And XBox doesn't have to in the first place, but if you really mean to imply that a TV screen looks as good as an PC screen, you are a complete moron.
4.) "It will be able to run Dolphin" - maybe it will, and maybe even smoothly. But never faster than on an PC. If you didn't know, the XBox actually uses a modified Win 2k-Kernel and a not too different system from the PC.
5.) You are trying to emulate a console of the same generation. I don't want to throw up the topic "What is the best console on planet?", but it's not probable that the XBox is more than two times faster than the Gamecube, right? And I know absolutely NO emulator that can emulate a system at full speed only with a system that is two times faster. Especially if it's using a completely different CPU architecture.

Again, it may not be impossible, but it would need a real masterpiece of code to do that.
6.) Can you tell me why games like UT2003 don't run too much faster on Linux, if at all? I hope you don't want to say that Linux is full of trash as Windows... I mean *laughs* you would be an unimaginable dumba$$.

 

[Fgoaty]

We will just have to see about the emulation but the fact remains yet that u still comared the specs of a pc to the xbox and the xbox just hasent got the same workload as the pc in terms of textures resolution etc and no if it takes a kick ass ps system to emulate the gamecube i think that the xbox will have a damn hard time but maby with some really good optz we will wait and see...

at last, a decent answer
but one thing to remember you say about having more workload in the ways of resolution and texture, the xbox is stuck on 640x480 because thats the maximum a tv can output, and personally tv's make things look better most of the time anyway playing any emulator on a monitor is too crisp and using a tv will smooth it out (less jaggies ect) so we will have to wait and see.

heh, the linux thing, programmers dont give a shit about linux, it has a lower user end than windows, waaaaaay lower infact why would they care if a few people complain about how slow their linux version runs.

 

[bohdy]

You are the one being childish Fgoaty, and also (funnily enough) the one talking bullshit. staylor is correct on every point he rebuked you with.

Also most PC games of the last 6 months have been using at least Xbox level pixel shaders. You seem to be excited by Motion Blur?? Ps1 was capable of that.

And Farcry does use bump-mapping afaik. The dev's did make a big deal of their polybump technology afterall.

The PC needs to generate 10 times as much video data as a console just to properly drive the display.

But who would have thunk it, the image quality is also 10 times better. Not to mention modern graphics cards have a much higher fillrate than the Xbox gpu.

And I (severely) doubt that any overhead Windows may have amounts to the difference between a pIII 733 and a P4 3.2gh + ht, not to mention the architectural improvements between the two cpu's.

And yes Dolphin could run on an Xbox but it won't run faster than any decent PC, if it was ported at all. Afaik homebrew development on Xbox hasn't even figured out how to use the gpu properly. Ector and F|res could sus it out because they are so obviously skilled, but I doubt that they would bother because it would never run very fast.

And as for you: You are a hoot because you argue about nonsense which you have little understanding of and use one sided comparisons from people smarter than you to back up your ignorant claims.

... I think that I have said enough...

 

[Tweakster]

far cry doesnt even use bump mapping let alone pixel shading,? so what are you talking about?

Real time editing, bump mapping, static lights, network system, integrated physics system, shaders, shadows and a dynamic music system are just some of the state of-the-art features the CryENGINE™ offers.

Shaders: A script system used to combine textures in different ways to produce visual effects. Supports real time per-pixel lighting, bumpy reflections, refractions, volumetric glow effects, animated textures, transparent computer displays, windows, bullet holes, and shinny surfaces.


Terrain: Uses an advanced heightmap system and polygon reduction to create massive, realistic environments. The view distance can be up to 2km when converted from game units

Lighting and Shadows: A combination of precalculated, real time shadows, stencil shadows and lightmaps to produce a dynamic environment. Includes high-resolution, correct perspective, and volumetric smooth-shadow implementations for dramatic and realistic indoor shadowing. Supports advanced particles technology and any kind of volumetric lighting effects on particles.

 

[Clements]

Dolphin on XBox!!? Don't make me laugh, XBox barely has the specs of a mid-range PC, it's processor is basically a Celeron/PIII hybrid thing at 733MHz, it can barely run a 93MHz N64 emulator, let alone a 485MHz 64-Bit PowerPC processor. The graphics in XBox are also below spec, they do not have all the DX9 features.

Just buy a GC, unless running games @ sub-10fps on a £1000+ PC is your bag.

 

[ZDragon]

"heh, the linux thing, programmers dont give a shit about linux, it has a lower user end than windows, waaaaaay lower infact why would they care if a few people complain about how slow their linux version runs."

Now you'd only have to say that OpenGL is complete shit compared to DirectX and you are not just A dumba$$, but the biggest one of the whole world.

Time to wake up, man!

 

[piccolo17486]

i still remain with my opinion, the xbox cant emulate the Gamecube at any playable state (commercial games)..
Xbox = Celeron 733, 64 MB RAM, Geforce 3 MX (not the best card anymore)
Gamecube = PowerPC CPU 486 MHz, 40 MB of total RAM, strange graphic
so the xbox is about 250Mhz faster, but its a x86 machine... not a PPC, PPC are faster, and why isnt there any good PPC emu yet, because its damn hard to emulate such a system at a good speed yet. You need at the moment atleast a 2ghz cpu, 256MB DDR Ram and a Directx 9 card to see a good picture on dolphin... how can you imagin that this is possible on a PC which is 3 times slower??? yes the XBOX is a PC... ok the system is much smaller but that doesnt change that the pc is still much more power full.
you said that the xbox is capable of running n64 on great speed and the pc with the same clock speed not, but that depends just on hardware, i can just put a pc together, with right hardware and it will be as good as on the x-box...
also the n64 is much much much slower than the x-box... the things why console games look sometimes better than pc games is (which isnt really true anyway) because those games were made for on hardware configuration, and pc games just have to be more flexible, just look at those graphic demos from ati or so... they look much better than any game, but just because they were mad for only one hardware.
and that halo2 looks better than farcry isnt true... you just say that because this green guy has a nice reflection armor... look at the backgrounds... nothing more than a nice charakter on this pic...
perhaps you can run some small homebrew on the xbox in sometime, but what fun if you are playing a slow pong version.......

 

[ZDragon]

And by the way, you have compared the best shot of Halo 2 with one of the (in my opinion) worst shots of Far Cry. Anyway, the scene you showed will look much better than anything on the XBox when you see it in motion... I am absolutely sure about that.

 

[bLAdEbLA]

Moderators, please lock this topic. These boards are about users getting together and enjoying what was created by some great people, not kiddies arguing Xbox vs. GC vs. PC vs. the world.

 

[Lillymon]

OK, before this gets locked, I need to step in here and inject some sanity into this thread.

1. The PC starts off with a huge bandwidth disadvantage because of the demands of its display technology.

Eh? Let's see that comparison.

PC: 60fps x 1024 x 768 x 32-bit color = 180 MBps
Xbox: 30fps x 640 x 480 x 16-bit color = 18 MBps

OK well first off, the PC is doing twice as many frames, that doubles the strain for a start. Then the resolution is signifigantly higher, let's say that gives a 60% impact. Then it's doing twice the colour bittage, that doubles the strain again. Still looking so clean cut? There's also the issue that the PC port of Halo is badly coded in comparison to the Xbox version.

2. The Xbox has an incredibly powerful video architecture.

Bzzt! Wrong! The Xbox is about DirectX 7 spec really. My video card can handle DirectX 8.1 spec and the lastest can go right up to DirectX 9 spec. They're all a lot faster too. I can't really emphasize that last sentance enough.

3. The Xbox CPU is not burdened with the baggage of running a giant memory and CPU consuming OS.

It still has to handle large chunks of the Windows 2000 core. Admittedly, it's a quite a bit less, but the sheer speed on newer PCs more than makes up for this.

4. Every Xbox comes with a great standard video chip, but most consumer PC's are sold with a crippled video chip, which drags down the whole PC game market.

Wrong wrong wrong. A lot of consumer PCs come with fairly decent video cards which can outperform the Xbox.

5. A shared memory architecture between the CPU and GPU lets both processors help with graphics' performance, while even the fastest AGP bus on the PC is a bottleneck.

Nope. Since the Xbox is a PC, it comes with the same AGP bus. Pretty fast, but once more out performed by garden-variety PCs. The GameCube and PlayStation 2 are different though. They might well use something like what you described. That could give them quite a speed boost.

All in all, no matter what you say, the Xbox still uses a Pentium III/Celeron hybrid running at a rather pathetic 700Mhz. To emulate that 485Mhz Gekko, CPU speed is crucial and the Xbox can't match up. Even if you tore out the existing graphics and integrated the latest ATI Radeon 9800XT (uber-powerful) it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference since the CPU it would be paired with is woefully underpowered. Couple it with a high-end ATI Athlon XP and you stand a chance. Which is exactly what I plan to do.

One last thing to leave people to think about. If the Xbox is so much more powerful than the PC, why does Caustik think he stands such a great chance of emulating it on a regular PC at full speed?

 

[Viper_Viper]

far cry doesnt even use bump mapping let alone pixel shading,? so what are you talking about?
well from the looks of this:-

http://www.farcry-thegame.com/ss/image21.jpg

it looks terrible.
compared to this:-

http://www.game-revolution.com/previews/screens/xbox/halo_2/halo_21b.jpg

http://www.game-revolution.com/previews/screens/xbox/halo_2/halo_24b.jpg


HOW IN HELL CAN YOU BEAT THIS???

http://www.gaudenbat.com/pictures/SentIn/images/halo 2.jpg

and we're talking about emulation here not super games....
im just saying it will be able to run Dolphin, i mean you have to agree?

ok... looking at the pixture of farcry, that looks in-game, and the halo2 is a video. u cant compair them. And you cant compair Halo for xbox to Halo for pc because it was ported bad. Just drop it, dolphin wont run gamecube games on the xbox, though we would like it to

 

[sleep_21]

Setting the record straight

OK, I do a little Xbox Dev'ing so let me separate the facts from the myths.

1. Hardware acceleration is possible in native Xbe executables. In linux, there aren't accelerated drivers.

2. Unless there is an unprecidented level of optimization to dolphin, a port to the xbox is a waste of time. (basically, you will NEVER play Wind Waker on the xbox at more than 2FPS)

3. Halo2's engine isn't dramatically better than the original. If you want to talk about awesome looking games, take a look at Doom3. John Carmack said he wouldn't port Doom3 to GC or PS2 because he's have to "dumb down" the engine and models too much. Far Cry probably will look better than Halo2, but it won't hold a candle to doom3 (xbox).