Project 64 - To Open Source or .. ?

[jpm1234]

Hi all,

Newbie poster here, but I have been following the forums for a little while now. ;)

I was wondering if the last PJ64 (1.4) release is going to be the last major one, then would it be possible to release the source code for it?

My personal reason for this is that I'm wanting to get into 3D programming myself, and believe it would be fun and educational to see how some really good programmers go about something so complex. :colgate:

Another reason being that PJ can be improved even more, Radeon Smooth Vision enhancements maybe, new features, etc added to it. Well, it's just an idea anyways, and even if the source would not be released right away, maybe in the future, a few months after its release?


Well, thanks for reading, and rock on :pj64:

JPm

:plain: :hrm: ??? :) :colgate:

[mesman00]

eh, not likely, there are too many lamers who would just compile it, rename add, change the menu around, and call it their own...
but, if you want to get a look at a some code for a great n64 emu, check out 1964's web site, there open source, and a very good emulator. go to www.1964emu.com

[jpm1234]

mesman00,

While there is that possibility, do you see very many 1964 Clones using their source code and changing the menu around?

I can't say that I have, and anyone who has used PJ (or 1964) would realize after using a new 'ripped off' emulator that it was exactly the same as the original source otherwise.

The main source of the 'slightly modified and released as their own'-type N64 emulators were UltraHLE knock offs I believe, where the source wasn't available and they mainly used a hex editor to modify some of the code (or something similar).

I was thinking of this possibility when I posted this originally, but I feel that the people who really matter in the emulation scene would recognize something in this vein as a rip-off and expose it as such if this happened.

Anyways, it is up to the authors: Jabo, and Zilmar..

Good work on the project in any case. Merry Xmas! :pj64:

[Smiff]

Blade64.

Anyway, it doesn't matter, theres more cool people than lamers, and rip off emus can never get further than the emus they rip off. The only problem is sites like A@H run by f***wits with no clue or care for emulation, who will host any fake emu and keep hosting it after theyre told, for hits.

[gokuss4]

heck jabo and zilmar said the same exact thing about version 1.0 and they continued it and version 1.4 will hopefully NOT be the last cause i love that emu to DEATH! JABO AND ZILMAR PLEASE AND I MEAN PLEASE DON'T DISCONTINUE THE EMU!!!:cry: :cry:

[pj64er]

u guys dont care what A@H thinks do u????

[Acorn]

Ahh, of course we do! Dude, the world will end if PJ64 loses another little stick thingy! The emulation scene will collapse if A@H promotes a fake emu!

[Smiff]

ack no, missing point, those sites allow those people to continue what they're doing, without them they'd have no exposure.

[Acorn]

OMG smiff are you up 24/7?? :)

Yes.. they allow the continued publicity. But not to the dedicated emu public, who all know what a fake is after retrogames, emulation64 + ever other respected news source, irc channel, forum and contact has beaten it to death. They trick people who are still in the toplist phase of emulation into thinking they are real - which can be a very bad influince for people who are seriously joining the emu scene. Because of the side that is "casually" into emulation, or was reccomended in by a friend and is just trying to discredit it (much to common for me :/), these fakes generate a headache and sense of non-value for the true authors, those whose skill lies in programming emus and not stealing.

So the problem we are dealing with is #1 the site who will do anything for publicity and #2 the people who don't, or never think to check out the vallidity of an emu. I'm assuming that the people actually creating the fakes arn't a problem - we know their type and feelings, in the many styles they come, and are smart enough to laugh at them and not boil.

Does this sum it up pretty well or did I just rant?

[Lex]

Yeah go on don't stop!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool: :pj64:

[Doomulation]

Errr... isn't there, I think, a way to make the open source sort of license? I think Snes9X has some way of this...

[pj64er]

gettin ur work stolen does suck, but as sniff(hehe:D) mentioned they arent going to get much better than the original emu. the newb who downloads the emulators from topsites will realize which ones are better.

anyway, this decision isnt up to us, let jakob and The Other One figure out what they what to do with pj afterwards.




Smiff, r u saying Blade 64 is fake?

[flow``]

doom: are you freakin retarded?

its the GPU(?) license saying you have to give credit for using the source

obviously a "lamer" would only modify the GUI, name, ect and recompile without any of that with it

[Smiff]

Why do you think 1964 releases the source a version behind? Mmm? I might be way out on this but i think it's because Blade64 was ripping them and several other emulators off.

[pj64er]

:angry: i didnt ppl would get so lame.
what does Rice or Schibo think about this?
hav they reacted in any other way other than releasing the source one version later?

[Jabo]

just to throw in a little different opinion, users shouldn't always be glad when something goes open source. it usually means that the authors will not be working on it anymore, or a lot less. And in theory since they created the software, they would be the best ones to continue working on it. But if the project is ending than open source is great in that respect as well, also others can learn quite a bit from it. I'm more of a fan of documentation to tell you the truth. Open Source is over-rated.

[jpm1234]

Originally posted by Jabo
just to throw in a little different opinion, users shouldn't always be glad when something goes open source. it usually means that the authors will not be working on it anymore, or a lot less. And in theory since they created the software, they would be the best ones to continue working on it. But if the project is ending than open source is great in that respect as well, also others can learn quite a bit from it. I'm more of a fan of documentation to tell you the truth. Open Source is over-rated.


Jabo, I agree that Open Source has become somewhat of a buzzword, and documentation does matter. I should have maybe been more clear when I originally posted, but I meant basically exactly what you said: that open source would be great if ??? the project was going to end after 1.4

Now I know that real life demands can affect the development of a project like this, and also what is happening now; whereby basically the emulator is (apart from small things) just about perfect.. and you've (i'm assuming :D ) just about finished what you set out to do with :pj64: .

That was mainly my question, or a suggestion for consideration for you and Zilmar..

Anyways, I have finals to study for :blush: so i better get going.

Keep up the good work! :cool:

[Eddy]

Well i mostly agree with everybody.


Good Things
Some people can continue development
education on emu programming
other authors can look at the source, and see how you did it, the fault, and ways to improve the source.
More releases

Down Fall
Ripping codes
no respect
too many emus floating around, almost all the same
less people know who really busted their asses coding it.

But i wouldnt bitch if zil and jabo didnt release the source. I been really happy with pj64, it was the first emu that actually worked well with my old voodoo 3, and fast too. And i understand when you are developing a program/emu for more than 3 years, damn it takes will and big balls to give it 1 more year, or less. Rice and schibo's last two releases have been wonderful The only problem is that there is no gfx plugin to support it, only jabo's, which are constantly being updated. Along with the core, and sound. So another thing would be that the end of pj64 will slow down development amonst emus by at least 25%. The daedalus, and tr64 havent been heard of in a while, but im sure theyll get releaed, Nemu is there but it isnt if you know what im saying. Well yeah that was it.

[Houn]

Well, if not open source, perhaps find some dedicated individuals who might want to continue the project - many out there would love to see it continue, no matter how "perfect" 1.4 is.

But, it's up to you. Either way, you've already made your mark on the 64 emu community, and aided in the preservation of Nintendo64 throughout all time - years from now, we can show our children and grandchildren "see, this is what WE played" without having to dig out old, obsolete consoles.

Long live digital.
Long live Project 64.

- Houn

[sk8bloke22]

yeh documentation is the best route, and maybe a few open source emus as examples, but theres already 1964 and daedalus.

[sytaylor]

Originally posted by sk8bloke22
yeh documentation is the best route, and maybe a few open source emus as examples, but theres already 1964 and daedalus.

i tried reading the 1964 source and i was boggled!! messed with my miiind:alien: im also a fan of documentation well commented code only goes so far :)

[Smiff]

Originally posted by Houn
Well, if not open source, perhaps find some dedicated individuals who might want to continue the project - many out there would love to see it continue, no matter how "perfect" 1.4 is.

But, it's up to you. Either way, you've already made your mark on the 64 emu community, and aided in the preservation of Nintendo64 throughout all time - years from now, we can show our children and grandchildren "see, this is what WE played" without having to dig out old, obsolete consoles.

Long live digital.
Long live Project 64.

- Houn

lol, youll have to dig out your old, obselete PC instead... and that's less likely to still work than an N64 :p

[Eddy]

the thing thats really gonna kill everythin, is when there is no jabo gfx, because cores can catch up to zilmar's in time, but not gfx to jabo any time soon, it would be cool if jabo handed the code to someone else so they can continue it, as well as zilmar to another person;

[zeus]

There are pros and cons with everything in this world but in this situation the pros for open sourcing Pj64 clearly outweights the cons. A lot of work has gone into this project and an open source situation could be the revival it needs.

If the code is well commeted and well documented it would be a great resourse, otherwise it would be almost impossible for someone else to understand three years of thinking. If that is the case documentation with references or sections of the code would be better.

Or you could do it with a catch, release the source for v1.0 a couple of months after the last release and then continue with 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4. This way the ripoffs would be way back in terms of compatibility and features, the "1964 - Blade" dilemma.

And if we were to remove the lame part of this discussion, the ripoff´s, and concentrate on the progress on n64 emulation after pj64 disconnutination, and yes, I know it´s wrongly spelled, a project could be setup. It would take skilled and dedicated ppl to continue the work and raise it to another level. With a little luck maybe one or more of the psx gfx emulation peeps would step over.

And if you don´t want a open source situation you could give the code to another team, to futher the progress.

[Eddy]

Jabo can give the gfx source to strmnNrmn, who is a very good gfx coder. the gfx is gonna kill n64 emulation.

[Slougi]

Originally posted by Eddy
Jabo can give the gfx source to strmnNrmn, who is a very good gfx coder. the gfx is gonna kill n64 emulation.
Also StrmnNrmn is converting the daedalus built-in gfx into a dll.

[zeus]

After giving it a little thought open sourcing wouldn´t do any difference if there wasn´t anyone to pick it up, a lot of ppl would learn from it but it´s to the other coders that it will make all the difference.

With the recent release of the new tr64 ogl plugin which is good but when using it with a game with a lot of visuality, i.e zelda MoM the difference between the plugins becomes crystal clear. The new tr64 ogl plugin emulates a lof of the gfx but it doesn´t do all the those small things, which ihmo makes all the difference. If these things were incoporated into this plugin, not the cut-n-paste way, which I`m sure isn´t even thoght about but the problem/solution route. They can c how this problem has been attacked, and hopefully solved ,and attack it their own way.

[Smiff]

No offense to anyone but the position Jabo is in actually makes it hard for him to release the source.. he's just so far ahead of anything else.. I know in his position I wouldn't, it wouldn't be right... source sharing is great up to a point with other contributors but that would just spoon feeding, I dunno its hard to explain but it's not good, people need to be on roughly the same planet before you start.

[Eddy]

Well, jabo's gfx is a important asset to n64 emulation, so is zilmar's core. But if they feel its time to call it quits, in time, there will be enough to replenish the scene. 1964 has moved up. alot. And with azimer's excellent audio plugin, the audio, and core is taken care of, icepir8's tr64ogl and the daedalus plugin are enough also. TR64 is improving and back on dev.

[pj64er]

Originally posted by Jabo
just to throw in a little different opinion, users shouldn't always be glad when something goes open source. it usually means that the authors will not be working on it anymore, or a lot less. And in theory since they created the software, they would be the best ones to continue working on it. But if the project is ending than open source is great in that respect as well, also others can learn quite a bit from it. I'm more of a fan of documentation to tell you the truth. Open Source is over-rated.

i just read this again,

is Jabo hinting that he is going to do documentations?
this would be a great asset to the n64 emu scene!

but this would mean more work for Jakob...

[Smiff]

I'm not saying no one else will be able to do a plugin as good as Jabo's, im saying it will take them a long time, probably at least a year from now, maybe two, unless someone is at a much further state then they are letting on or has a huge amount of free time. (and Nemu doesn't count 'cos it's not going to be usable).