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CLSugarman
July 22nd, 2002, 23:14
i don't think there is an audio plug-in that supports the surround features in games like zelda. only stereo sound. i know cuz i have a surround sound system. no surround sound. not really nagging, the audio plug-ins are great. just another challenge for azimer.

CLSugarman
July 24th, 2002, 04:46
is EAX or something like that out of the question?

Reznor007
July 25th, 2002, 22:53
Use the standard RCA sterep cables into the receiver, and turn on Dolby ProLogic or PL2 if you have a newer receiver. Works pretty good. The scenes in Conker(beach attack) sound really nice.

Smiff
July 25th, 2002, 23:12
Originally posted by Reznor007
Use the standard RCA sterep cables into the receiver, and turn on Dolby ProLogic or PL2 if you have a newer receiver. Works pretty good. The scenes in Conker(beach attack) sound really nice.

right.. if you're only using standard stereo cables (which is all there is on the N64 afaik) and you connect your PC in the same way, it should work? At least Project64's RSP should work... i dunno, haven't asked/tried.

Reznor007
July 25th, 2002, 23:41
EAX is not suited to this task. You would need to write a software Dolby Pro-Logic 2 decoder and output that to a DirectSound3D stream.

Smiff
July 26th, 2002, 00:00
CLSugarman. how do you connect your N64 to your sound system?

Reznor007
July 26th, 2002, 23:05
It should work the same as long as the emulated sound is somewhat close to the original. However, since a SB Live 5.1 or Audigy connect to a receiver using 6 RCA cables(leftright, rear left/right, center, sub) the receiver cannot use PL processing because it is already receiving a direct input for all the channels. Using DirectSound3D and a PL2 filter would work with this method, since the processing is done before being sent to the receiver.

CLSugarman
July 29th, 2002, 15:18
i'm not talking about hooking up the real N64 to a surround sound system, i'm talking about in an emulator. Zelda64's options in the Audio menu say HeadPhone, Mono, Stereo, and Surround. The surround gives the same audio as stereo. i'm saying in emulation not hooking up the N64 to my surround sound.


4 Channels have to be outputted instead of 2 using stereo. Isn't ProLogic II just for Stereo to sound better? I'm not entirely sure. I think DirectSound supports 4 Speaker Surround sound. I know Zelda64 is for 4 speaker surround sound not 5. Anyway, i'm just talking about in an emulator. That's the only feature i see missing in these audio plug-ins.

Cyberman
July 29th, 2002, 23:05
Originally posted by CLSugarman
i'm not talking about hooking up the real N64 to a surround sound system, i'm talking about in an emulator. Zelda64's options in the Audio menu say HeadPhone, Mono, Stereo, and Surround. The surround gives the same audio as stereo. i'm saying in emulation not hooking up the N64 to my surround sound.


4 Channels have to be outputted instead of 2 using stereo. Isn't ProLogic II just for Stereo to sound better? I'm not entirely sure. I think DirectSound supports 4 Speaker Surround sound. I know Zelda64 is for 4 speaker surround sound not 5. Anyway, i'm just talking about in an emulator. That's the only feature i see missing in these audio plug-ins.

Well carefully reread the posts.. they weren't talking about connecting the N64 at all..

The problem comes in where you need to take the encoded signal (surround is 180 degree out of phase signal for the center channel for example) and send it to the decoder (aka Stereo) as it would be recieved from an N64. Some sound cards break the signal already into multiple channels (IE more than stereo) and this is where you might have trouble. All I am doing is summarizing what they said for you. Unfortunately I suppose the connection was lost a bit.

Cyb

CLSugarman
July 29th, 2002, 23:26
oh, i must not have been clear. anyway, i get audio from the rear and center speaker, it's just that the rear left plays the same and the front left and the rear right plays the same as the front right. I get audio from all the speakers. I'm not talking about converting stereo sound to surround sound. I'm talking about emulating the surround sound features implemented in some games such as Zelda64 and Majura's Mask. I have a ProLogic II kinda thing. Creative includes ones. But thatz Stereo to Surround. I'm talking about the audio source being surround sound. This is where the confusion is.


Look at the picture, the audio is encoded in surround as well as stereo. The surround sound option works the same as the stereo option.

cakuhnen
July 29th, 2002, 23:39
Dear Friend

Try to develop a plugin with FMOD Technology, the FMOD engine
support EAX Creative, Dolby Digital and Surround, wait for my plugin, this support Surround Sound.

Thank's

CAK Computer Systems, Inc.
Copyright 1999-2002 CAK Computer Systems, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.

Reznor007
July 30th, 2002, 01:59
Originally posted by CLSugarman
oh, i must not have been clear. anyway, i get audio from the rear and center speaker, it's just that the rear left plays the same and the front left and the rear right plays the same as the front right. I get audio from all the speakers. I'm not talking about converting stereo sound to surround sound. I'm talking about emulating the surround sound features implemented in some games such as Zelda64 and Majura's Mask. I have a ProLogic II kinda thing. Creative includes ones. But thatz Stereo to Surround. I'm talking about the audio source being surround sound. This is where the confusion is.


Look at the picture, the audio is encoded in surround as well as stereo. The surround sound option works the same as the stereo option.

In the game, when you select surround is just adjusts the normal stereo sound effects so that when you use Dolby ProLogic processing it will be in surround. If you select surround and only process it as normal stereo, it will sound almost identical to the normal stereo option. That is why you have to have a plugin that will process the stereo signal with ProLogic and output it as a DirectSound3D stream. I suggested ProLogic2 processing since it creates a 5.1 signal, and further enhances the standard ProLogic effect.

CLSugarman
July 30th, 2002, 03:15
so what you are saying is that the surround sound on the original N64 is not really multichannel but ProLogic? I thought it was multichannel on the original N64 in which i can hear enemies that are behind me like in PC games that support multichannel audio. So N64 games are not multichannel but use ProLogic to output sound to rear speakers. I'm confused now.

Reznor007
July 30th, 2002, 05:02
Originally posted by CLSugarman
so what you are saying is that the surround sound on the original N64 is not really multichannel but ProLogic? I thought it was multichannel on the original N64 in which i can hear enemies that are behind me like in PC games that support multichannel audio. So N64 games are not multichannel but use ProLogic to output sound to rear speakers. I'm confused now.

Yes, all Surround sound games on N64 are just stereo with ProLogic enhanced sound. All the N64 sees and outputs is 2 channels(stereo). It can make for convincing surround if the programmer does the sound just right though.

Also, on Gamecube, all it outputs is a stereo signal as well, but some games are designed for ProLogic2, and can generate what is a near perfect 5.1 signal over basic stereo.

CLSugarman
July 30th, 2002, 17:52
damn. so the only way to have real surround is by using the Direct3D video output with DirectSound3D, but for that to happen some person has to have the source code for the video plug-in and the audio plug-in. this means that you have to take the audio and position it with Direct3D, then use DirectSound3D to output the audio to the correct speakers. damn.

Reznor007
August 1st, 2002, 03:20
Originally posted by CLSugarman
damn. so the only way to have real surround is by using the Direct3D video output with DirectSound3D, but for that to happen some person has to have the source code for the video plug-in and the audio plug-in. this means that you have to take the audio and position it with Direct3D, then use DirectSound3D to output the audio to the correct speakers. damn.

It does not require Direct3D to use DirectSound3D. Many software DVD players use DirectSound3D for the Dolby Digital/DTS surround sound.

All you would have to do is have a normal audio plugin, add a Dolby ProLogic2 software decoder to it, and output the sound using DirectSound3D.

CLSugarman
August 1st, 2002, 05:52
huh, thatz not what i said. i said to get TRUE 5.1 Surround sound you have to position the audio using the Direct3D output or OpenGL. I also didn't say that was the only way. Using ProLogic II will not give you full 5.1 sound, like being able to hear enemies that are behind from the rear speakers and ONLY the rear speakers. That is not TRUE 5.1 Surround.

Ruesselschnurps
August 1st, 2002, 13:06
Sounds interesting, but i think you'd need special settings & "drivers" for each game...some HLE Stuff...but since the games weren't designed to have "true" surround, it really wouldn't be worth it !

Reznor007
August 1st, 2002, 14:52
Originally posted by CLSugarman
huh, thatz not what i said. i said to get TRUE 5.1 Surround sound you have to position the audio using the Direct3D output or OpenGL. I also didn't say that was the only way. Using ProLogic II will not give you full 5.1 sound, like being able to hear enemies that are behind from the rear speakers and ONLY the rear speakers. That is not TRUE 5.1 Surround.

On a scale of difficulty from 1-10...that would rate a 15. You don't get the 3d audio information from the 3d graphics API, the internal game code creates it from what it knows about where things are. To do this with N64 games, you would have to hack each individual game, and even then, the system only supports stereo output. Your best bet would be to port the game to PC and add in 3d sound directly.

Oh, and PL2 is a 5.1 setup(well, technically 5.0 with bass information extracted from the other channels). Get a PL2 capable receiver, and run Rogue Leader(Gamecube) audio setup. The sound will pan to each channel correctly, and I seriously doubt you would tell much of a difference.

cooliscool
August 6th, 2002, 19:47
O.T. - Hey CLsugarman, nice to see you again. i see you've kept your avatar, same one you had back in 2001 :) once again, nice seein ya :) look in my sig to see who i am ;)

Azimer
August 6th, 2002, 22:14
Look at the RCA plugs that came with your N64. There are only two for output... no? That's stereo sound... there is nothing more to it.

Reznor007
August 8th, 2002, 04:43
Originally posted by Azimer
Look at the RCA plugs that came with your N64. There are only two for output... no? That's stereo sound... there is nothing more to it.

While true in the technical sense, some games are specially enhanced so that when processed with ProLogic, they have surround effects.