[$threadinfo[title]]

[Grant64]

I have noticed that many people have been saying to let UltraHLE rest in peace. I ask - WHY??? Now I can understand if people feel that 100 UltraHLE recompiles turned up claiming to be new emus but for Dominator I feel that this is great news as it allows him to add loads of features to SupraHLE during a small transaction period.

[Doomulation]

Because uHLE has been since long dead. And there's much more other emulators which emulates more games than uHLE.
And since so, they, like me, just thinks let it be. We usually have system enough to play other emulators.

But well...
ultrahle is good for those with not so great systens.
That's reason enough to continue it for some.

[LD.]

There's one reason why UltraHLE should be continued.

Because it's possible.

[later]

Originally posted by Doomulation
Because uHLE has been since long dead. And there's much more other emulators which emulates more games than uHLE.
And since so, they, like me, just thinks let it be. We usually have system enough to play other emulators.

But well...
ultrahle is good for those with not so great systens.
That's reason enough to continue it for some.

There are emulators out there who play more games than UltraHLE. But uHle is still the fastest emulator out there.

Project64 is running Goldeneye at 20fps for me. And yes, I have a system that meets the system requirements: P4 2000, GF4

UltraHLE already runs Goldeneye at full-speed at a 300mhz machine.

I think that it should be ported over to D3D/OpenGL and uHLE will become the best emulator again.

It doesn't play alot games, but it plays the BEST games!

[Smiff]

Comparing speeds on Goldeneye is stupid, this is a known issue for this game in Project64 (try CF3). Try 1964. Try most games. uHLE is not particularly fast.

[later]

Originally posted by Smiff
Comparing speeds on Goldeneye is stupid, this is a known issue for this game in Project64 (try CF3). Try 1964. Try most games. uHLE is not particularly fast.

Why is comparing stupid? Goldeneye is a pretty OLD game, and project64 still doesn't run it OK. And Goldeneye is for me one of the best games for the N64. You always have to change options and shit, and in UltraHLE you just have to double-click a game and it works.

[hotshitu]

...It's like the wind that follows fast/ And fills the white and rustling sail/ And bends the gallant mast /And bends the gallant mast, my boys...

Now guess how this stanza ends :P

[aprentice]

Smiff needs to stop comparing every emu to pj64, its getting really annoying.

[sk8bloke22]

why do ppl give a shit. seriously, the ppl who dont want uhle continued why post on this forum. theres enuff ppl who would be happy to see uhle progress, so if u dont like uhle stay in the other emu forums. this whole arguement is stupid.

[songoku]

I've got an old PC and SupraHLE is faster than any other emu on the games it supports... except for Corn, but Corn is good just for Mario. I think that nowadays it's rather unuseful to use UHLE, but just because it was discontinued... try thinking about what Dom has done hacking it, and what could be done with it's sources! Even if not thinking about emulation compatibility or accuracy, there are tons of things in the interface: the long-time-complained space-in-a-filename-bug, the long-long-time-hoped zip-file-support and so on...
Moreover, many other things that couldnt be adjusted without the source can now be edited (I think the support for native save states can be among these), maybe more games could be added in the compatibility list, etc.etc.
I firmly believe that something good can still come from UHLE (or SHLE, depends if Dom will develop it under a name or another, or if someone other will work on it...); at least, let someone TRY! It shouldn't hurt, no?
However, I hope it won't be abandoned so easily.

[Smiff]

Originally posted by aprentice
Smiff needs to stop comparing every emu to pj64, its getting really annoying.

actually, HE compared it, and I replied with a valid point. The number of people who don't read a thread before replying has always been really annoying.

[Lillymon]

Smiff, may I just say something?

Shut the fuck up.

This thread is just repeating the same old arguement interspersed with you being a smartass and everyone telling you what I am now.

No, this arguement is dead. And you're exuming the corpse. Stop it.

[sytaylor]

ok, i have to jump to smiffs defence here... wtf!!! being a smartass?!

Later posted: "Project64 is running Goldeneye at 20fps for me"
Smiff posted: "this is a known issue for this game in Project64"

i'd say thats more helpful than anything, especially when someone else origioanlly drew up the comparison...

so he made that point, and you claim he's being a smartass? am i just missing something here or doesnt it strike everyone else as extremley moronic, all the smiff bashing that goes on around here!

As for the argument, im not gonna get into it but lilly savage if you don't wanna read about it ffs don't read, go whinge somewhere else!

and i just wanna add, this isnt a flame, but more a vent... comments like "shut the fuck up" when someone is trying to be helpful are uncalled for

[Lillymon]

I'm not talking about this topic in particular. I'm talking about Dominiator (finally locked) topic that's in the SupraHLE forum now. He was acting like UltraHLE would destroy Project64 or something...

Oh, and feel free to direct your flames in this direction. The topic will get locked faster that way.

[flow``]

actually smiff is the smartass.. by unlocked, posting, and re-locking the thread in the suprahle board to get in the last word.

smiff is a dickhead, we know it, accept it, now lets move on.

[Smiff]

better a smartass than a dumbass.

Yeah i could make my answers "nicer", but sometimes can't be bothered... i'm not here to make friends... people who appreciate a straight answer can respect what i say... either way it's better than the endless bullshit in other forums.

Now if you find one of my answers that's wrong (as opposed to one you don't like, or isn't worded quite right for you), get back to me.

I created this forum BTW. So yeah, uHLE is really 'threatening' to me.

[aprentice]

Smiff, you dont need to make friends, but your hostile attitude doesnt fly well with most of us here. Try to be a bit more friendly and keep the enviroment a friendly community for the sake of martin :P

[Lillymon]

My last post here, this deserves a response.

Originally posted by Smiff
better a smartass than a dumbass.

Both irritating and pointless. I hate them all with equal venom.

Originally posted by Smiff
Yeah i could make my answers "nicer", but sometimes can't be bothered... i'm not here to make friends... people who appreciate a straight answer can respect what i say... either way it's better than the endless bullshit in other forums.

I'm all for honesty. I'm not for re-opening topics that are already decending into spam. That wasn't 'not being bothered', that was just intentionally mean to everybody.

Originally posted by Smiff
Now if you find one of my answers that's wrong (as opposed to one you don't like, or isn't worded quite right for you), get back to me.

'UltraHLE is pointless. Everyone should ignore this and concentrate on Project64'

The sum of what you've been saying constantly. What if we don't want to. What if we happen to like UltraHLE? What if Dominator wants to keep going on SupraHLE? UltraHLE is still a great emulator and I'm sure Project64 will keep going even if I prefer UltraHLE for some games...

Originally posted by Smiff
I created this forum BTW. So yeah, uHLE is really 'threatening' to me.

Perhaps it is. Perhaps you created this forum so you could put everyone off using UltraHLE and then close it.

In conclusion: Lay off UltraHLE. You may not see any point in using this old, tired emulator, but lots of people disagree. So leave us in peace will you?

Addemum: Oh, Goldeneye 007? CF=3 makes it jerky as heck in Project64. UltraHLE/SupraHLE? Smooth as pure gold, except for occasional DList errors. But you don't want that fixed, do you?

[Stezo2k]

yea too right m8 i couldnt of said it beter myself :) i have no idea why that spiff dude is a mod. i understand spiffs feelings about ultra, Pj64 is a gr8 emulator but i still prefer ultra because it plays all my fave games at full speed even on a 300mhz pc

Stez

[DeadRabbit]

I think we can settle this argument in a more gentlemanly manner..

EMULATORS AT DAWN !!!

BACK TO BACK....TEN PACES....TURN AND EMULATE WITH YOUR WEAPON OF CHOICE.......SMIFF WITH HIS PJ64 IN HIS SEQUINED HOLSTER VS. THE REST OF THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE (and Cricklewood), WITH THEIR PUMP-ACTION UHLE, IN A RENDERING DUEL TO THE DEATH.

I think I can get Don king interested, and maybe even Radio Northampton.


CAN YOU SMELL WHAT THE UHLE IS EMULATING !!!!!!


Nurse....it's time for my medication again I think :cry:

[Stezo2k]

hahaha:) u make emulation sound like the WWE :D i just hope dom carries on makin this gr8 emu better, avoiding all the bad comments about it *looks @ smiff*

Stez

[DeadRabbit]

Didn't they have to change their name from WWF because it was the same initials as the World Wildlife Fund.

If they'd have taken my suggestion of letting two giant pandas fuck in the centre of the ring, with David Attenborough refereeing (Or maybe even joining in , in some kind of wierd hot Homosapien on primates menage-a-trois), then maybe it wouldn't have come to that ??


WHY WON'T THEY LISTEN !!!



:bunny: ....BOOM !!!


Yeah, I hope Dom carries on, if for no other reason than to prevent him getting bored and sliding accidently into the world of goat porn (this can be easier than you think, trust me !). Once you're in there is NO ESCAPE !

[sytaylor]

yeah smiff can be kurt, and i didnt know about the suprahle thread, but cant we all just get along... i mean i certainly never remember him telling someone to "shut the fuck up" and therin lies my point

[DeadRabbit]

Yes, I agree with Sytaylor.

Anyway, only time will tell what does and doesn't come of this.

P.S

"but cant we all just get along..."

Sy, you really are the "Ghandi" of the forum, can I come to your house for tea ? :)

[Gent]

I honestly dont see the need for all this {}:{'ness.

UHLE "the next Generation" Leeked edition.
Supra Hacked (ive just been able to get around to using it)
Project64 1.5 b1 (semi-Official) etc

As i said on the supra Board (before it was cleared compleatly)

If Dom is given the go ahead from the original Authors of UHLE to either continue with UHLE Or Supra it will be nice.
Doms done good work on creating Supra
Is it a "Hack" yes. (done without Source & Was done well)
Is it "Good" yes. (i tried it thanks to Evoodoo It was great)

I love Pj64 I have a nice comp that happens to get a great performance out of it.
i love 1964 its a great emu.
i enjoyed Supra but i also love Compat
(PJ64 & 1964 for me has that)

So users must use whatever Emu they prefer.
Users must also agree for information on emus "Smiffs Site" is the place to go.

Lets stop the {}:{'ness & that goes for the fools who thought Smiff was behind the Supra Board was Deleted by him.

[Smiff]

thought i deleted what? lol.

One thing i take seriously is you shouldn't f**k around with other people's posts, or try to censor things, unless there is a very good reason for doing so (like rom links)


Lillymon you're an idiot who finds it easier to just say i hate uHLE than see the truth, and people like Stezo2k are just following you... if it suits you better to pirate Goldeneye with uHLE than PJ64, then it suits you better... (so long as you've really tried some alternatives). sure i'd like PJ64 to run that game a bit faster (I think it does already in private builds BTW) but it's not as important IMHO as hundreds of other things... so go on take your anger somewhere else, maybe use it productively to work on uHLE or something.

[sytaylor]

Originally posted by DeadRabbit
Yes, I agree with Sytaylor.

Anyway, only time will tell what does and doesn't come of this.

P.S

"but cant we all just get along..."

Sy, you really are the "Ghandi" of the forum, can I come to your house for tea ? :)

mm, i think we have some pasta left over, little late for tea tho

[songoku]

all right, I think this is enough... I thought this topic was started to know from someone the reasons for which should be abandoned...
Now someone get offended for a sentence by someone else, and we're here discussing about the stupidity of this or that person. Please STOP! I'd rather go on the discusion about UHLE, than going on saying that 'PJ64 is slow' and 'UHLE is OLD'. I think we're not here to promote one's favourite emulator, but to understand why should UHLE be continued or not.

About UHLE (and this only): someone said this emu should be abandone for it is old... I'm sorry but I disagree. Just because it is so old, and it was sooo good, and SupraHLE, wich was born from UHLE, is still used and it is the favourite emu for a number of people.
Now, I think that with the sources, Ultra can be RENEWED and get the compatibility and the support for newer APIs that misses much even in Supra.
On the opposite, if it would have been perfect, in that case it would be unuseful to work on it, but I thik it has still got many potentialities... it is old, and I agree that it can be considered stupid to use it right now, but we're speaking about MAKE it BETTER and than use it! I think it could become better than Supra (not blaming U, Dom, just judging from wath U've done w/out the sources, I'm dreaming of what can come out now), so I don't see any point in not try developping it.

That's it, this is just what I think.

[RatTrap]

i myself never said it should be abandoned.. or that ppl should'nt like it.. or that it should'nt be worked on at all.. i was trying to bring down the hype.. coz i know my bud Dom was getting to many ppl on him because of his work on Shle :p.. and it's sad.. coz it's RM and Epsilon who should be tackling the "heat".. although i would'nt like anyone to be getting email/msg flooded or anything like that by the whole public emu-comunity hehe..

what i DO say though.. is that uhle is HLE.. so it should not be seen in the same way you see a LLE or MLE emulator.. it's a diferent type of emulator.. wich makes it dificult for it to be helpfull to increase speed in other emus.. i said that because many where saying things like.. "now you could look in the source to see what makes uhle so fast and put it into pj64".. and stuff like that.. you should by now all know that it's not how it works :).. they are diferent types of emus.. period..

and about making it better ;).. hehe.. last thing i heard was that the recompiler in uhle was really something.. alot better than the ppl looking at the source expected i would say ;)..

[jonno]

ohhh, someone, i guess it would be dominator, deleted all the posts on the suprahle messageboard. anyway, unluckily for him, i just caught smiff's last message there which pretty much revealed that dominator sends people and possibly his own suprahle users a special virus :( many things pop into my head at a moment like this, some being, why does emulation64.com promote a thing that is made by virus sender man? another is will this virus sender man manifest his head in my coputer screen? i'd have to give it a whack if it should happen. anyway, back to the main issue, i'd rather not download software that is made by a virus sender man, could someone clarify the reality of the situation, is it safe to download the supra HLE or should i get the UltraHLE, from what i understand, suprahle has added some text in a file that comes with the supra hle which is why i supra hle is better than ultrahle, could this be a deadly virus?

! ^ in ze sky

[Tri-Force]

Smiff is a child. he acts like a child all the time. all hands up who can say this isn't true. all that happened was Smiff and Dom got into a pissing match and Smiff wanted the last word. that's all.

[Smiff]

Originally posted by Tri-Force
Smiff is a child. he acts like a child all the time. all hands up who can say this isn't true. all that happened was Smiff and Dom got into a pissing match and Smiff wanted the last word. that's all.

yeah that's a real accurate description of events, well done.

[Martin]

Hmm...this isn't really going anywhere. :plain2:

[Smiff]

BTW, to the person a few posts back, I have no evidence that it is Dominator sending viruses, that's purely circumstantial, so forget it. Certainly didn't want to suggest SupraHLE is a virus - at least not in that way.

[jonno]

anyway, all that aside. it seems many people flame smiff alot like flow saying he's a dickhead, lollymon telling him to shut the fuck up and tri-forced with his biased remarks. i never saw smiff directly flaming like that, he just sensibly stated his point and then gets flamed like f*ck. i dunno why alot of you are so protective of dominator and nasty to smiff but it's not good is it now.... ok peace!!!!

[aprentice]

Originally posted by jonno
ohhh, someone, i guess it would be dominator, deleted all the posts on the suprahle messageboard. anyway, unluckily for him, i just caught smiff's last message there which pretty much revealed that dominator sends people and possibly his own suprahle users a special virus :( many things pop into my head at a moment like this, some being, why does emulation64.com promote a thing that is made by virus sender man? another is will this virus sender man manifest his head in my coputer screen? i'd have to give it a whack if it should happen. anyway, back to the main issue, i'd rather not download software that is made by a virus sender man, could someone clarify the reality of the situation, is it safe to download the supra HLE or should i get the UltraHLE, from what i understand, suprahle has added some text in a file that comes with the supra hle which is why i supra hle is better than ultrahle, could this be a deadly virus?

! ^ in ze sky

ROTF
Theres no virus, i have norton with the latest definitions and nothing detects. Plus i know dom wouldnt do something like that.

[Smiff]

heh, they probably just know i'm right and don't like the truth. Anyway some of these people seem to enjoy the flaming so BRING IT ON lol, I can take it :)

[RatTrap]

stop feeding the troll.. this isn't that kind of a forum..

or plz close this thing.. it's pathetic..

[mmcoder]

I'm confused as HELL now. I have a few questions. 1) Who deleted all of the suprahle posts? Why? 2) Why do people who dislike UltraHLE have to make it their business that other people do? If you can't respect that people enjoy something, then noone cares what you think about it. 3) IS suprahle VIRUS related or not? If not then why the hell is it being brought up? Maybe because someone is an asshole?

[Smiff]

1) I'm told it was Dominator. Because: (1) he wanted to start clean (2) he's stopping the Project (3) he's changing forum (4) he didn't like what was in there (5) some other reason - pick your theory.

2) Who dislikes uHLE? I make people who get their facts wrong my business, who likes what is not. But people obviously do care what I think or they wouldn't get so worked up about it.

3) SupraHLE does not contain a virus, almost certainly. I would say it is perhaps virus-like in some ways (spreading around emu sites, serving no/little useful purpose, boosting the author's ego, wasting peoples' time). I also asked if the "author" was sending me viruses as I had good reason suspect it but no proof, and he was threatening me in a vague way.

[Tri-Force]

Originally posted by jonno

i never saw smiff directly flaming like that, he just sensibly stated his point


Originally posted by Smiff


3) SupraHLE does not contain a virus, almost certainly. I would say it is perhaps virus-like in some ways (spreading around emu sites, serving no/little useful purpose, boosting the author's ego, wasting peoples' time). I also asked if the "author" was sending me viruses as I had good reason suspect it but no proof, and he was threatening me in a vague way.

yah, superman doesn't flame people at all. :sleepy:

[Slougi]

Again a pointless flaming thread, again Smiff in the middle of things... I am getting kinda fed up.

[bodie]

can someone enlighten me to what dominator has done so wrong ..i have spoken to him on irc quite some time ago about things ranging from fairlight to the suprahle project and i found him to be honest about the limitations of what he was doing with supra,surely if he wants to work on something in his spare time and wants to share however much/little progress he's made it's completely up to him ..if people download it and like it (which they obviously do)then why shouldn't he carry on ..and now the source has been released people are up in arms before he's had any chance to learn and further the project ..
Life's all about choices and if you don't like it don't play it ,that's not to say you can't have an opinion about it ..but that said ,the opinion only needs to be heard once ..
LOOK OUT OF THE WINDOW THERE IS A BIG WORLD OUT THERE

LOVE PEACE AND MESSY STUFF
BODIE

[Smiff]

Try kinda not reading the thread Slougi.

The "almost" was there on the basis that you can never be 100% sure about anything. I'm _confident_ that SupraHLE does not contain a virus... is that wording better? And the quotes around "author" are there because he is of course not the author as such... when something is 99% someone else's work, you are not the author.. you are called something else, i'm honestly not sure what.

[Tri-Force]

how about "Coder", without the quotes

[RatTrap]

sigh.. i asked ppl to stop feeding the troll.. as in giving him sheeps so he'll come up from under the bridge.. a forum troll is a guy who might give a good personal view on things but is also in there knowing his just pissing ppl off.. and these persons usually like doing things like this.. usually very bored ppl though.. i myself can be abit of a troll sometime but i do try to minimize the times i am one :p.. it's an old forum thing i guess.. i guess nobody knew what i was talking about so i had to explain it :p..

i'm calling Smiff the troll now because his usefullness in this thread has become very questionable in my eyes.. although i do respect you most of the time smiff.. your pissing some ppl off.. also Dom and i are pretty close.. and all the stuff you've been saying is just sad.. why did you even start?.. that is beyond me.. and about helping ppl in here and giving them straight answers.. sure.. i'm all for it.. but you know.. ok so they don't know everything.... right.... do they have too?.. and is the cost of keeping you showing ppl how this or that works.. is it worth your arrogant and "i dun give a rat's ass about you"-like behaviour?.. i'm not saying i'm an angel.. but i honestly do try and not get into everyones bad side.. you my friend.. don't.. i know you don't care for having friends in here.. but then maybe your better off not showing up.. i'm not telling you to go away.. but i can tell your not thrilled about the fact that ppl are saying bad things about/to you eather.. how ever many "i don't care"'s you might throw back at me.. it still stings a little when you see stuff like that being said to you.. i know that much..

or at least i sudgest you leave the ultrahle/suprahle/dominator topics for us others who have no problem with these topics.. god knows there's a half a million other good topics to stroll around in :)..

lubb, peace & understanding :inlove: ..

/me looks around.. yells -> MARTIN!!!.. what did you do with my flowerpower smilie!!! :cry: ..

[Tri-Force]

/tip-toes away with his remaining sheep under arms.

[64ultramaniac]

Ppl hate Smiff cos simply he says the truth, straight and clear.This
is what makes ppl so mad,they want to hear what they like to hear.Unfortunately nowdays, saying the truth and being honest is a disadvantage...

[aprentice]

I think this thread served its purpose. Since the last few pages had nothing to do with the first original post, i think its safe to close this thread. :happy:

[flow``]

Ppl hate Smiff cos simply he says the truth, straight and clear. <-- rofl

most of smiff's post are biased and a generally non-accepted opinion. hence about everyone except you disagrees with his views.

please know what you're talking about before you post crap like that.

[Smiff]

have you considered the other possibility flow... that a lot of the people who post here regularly are quite ignorant... about most of what they post about, really... and that "accepted opinion" may be wrong, often. I get a lot of emails to the effect of "thank you for being the only place i could get a straight answer to x or y".. but those people don't feel the need to come here.

Isn't it nice the way locking a thread just excludes most people from a discussion? (sarcasm).

[flow``]

"I get a lot of emails to the effect of "thank you for being the only place i could get a straight answer to x or y""

oh bs. i'm not saying you aren't helpful around the board because you are when it comes to pj64. but no one is going to email you "thanks for flaming dominator, i totally agree with you"


"Isn't it nice the way locking a thread just excludes most people from a discussion?"

LOL.. everyone except you who unlocks the thread to put in the last word and then locks it again :P

[Smiff]

flow you're a w**ker, you know perfectly well how these forums work. i..e it's not necessary for mods to unlock a thread to post in a locked one. I bet it was you who just deleted hotshitu's rather more intelligent than average post... this censorship is really really irritating me now (congrats!)... with you and your lame brigade going around deleting the posts that happen to agree with me (often well thought out ones at that) and leaving the ones that don't (no matter how unpleasant) it's hardly surprising this bullshit twisted state of affairs is allowed to continue... jesus christ you slimy little t*rd... you and your ilk are bunch of spineless w*nkers, but no matter how low you go i won't start behaving in that way, deleting your posts etc, editing out stuff you don't like etc. Martin needs to have a think about who he employs around here and why. You could leave and it wouldn't matter a jot, I could leave and it would a loss to this forum... is that clear? Why are you here flow? you're not interested in emulation, I think you're just a little warez kiddy. Why don't you and Dominator and every other self-obsessed, non-contributing non-useful... person... go the hell AWAY.

I started this forum in the hope of encouraging some real improvement to uHLE... hahaha fat chance.... whoever does it will be working away quietly right now, far away from you lot and this bullshit. Now you weren't worth this much of my time and you're not getting any more, so have a think about what I've said and either change your ways or please do emulation and most of us a favour and dissappear.

[mmcoder]

If everyone's various accusations are true, that makes it pretty hard to pick sides. So uh, let's say you all go do something constructive instead of spamming/trolling every thread.

Hey or you could keep playing the lock some threads delete some posts games. That could kill time too I guess. Really not fun for the rest of us though. Hey give us all admin status! HAHA I could go delete all the daedalus posts.. maybe delete some people who disagree.. make some virus claims. . . ooh I can almost feel the power flowing through my fingers just thinking about it.

This has been an uber lame 2 weeks since UltraHLE leaked guys.

[songoku]

Originally posted by mmcoder
If everyone's various accusations are true, that makes it pretty hard to pick sides. So uh, let's say you all go do something constructive instead of spamming/trolling every thread.


Quote

[Derek]

i don't visit this forum very often and it's threads like these that make me happy i don't. i'd very much like to see an age distribution on this board.

the point was taken that uhle is fast, with proof of that by comparing it's speed in goldeneye to pj's speed in goldeneye. smiff (currectly) pointed out that pj doesn't run the game correctly, and therefore isn't a very valid comparison. this is a completely legit point. It's a known bug, not indicative at all of pj's level of emulation and speed. it's like comparing pj's speed playing CBFD to UltraHLE's "speed" playing CBFD. It's a stupid comparison.

His legitimate reply was then used as a means to turn this into a completely worthless thread, not pertaining to the topic at all, and to bash him. If you have problems with smiff, keep it in the threads that pertain to it. Don't waste the time of people who don't care.

As for PJ and UltraHLE. I loved ultrahle back in the day. Some people may even remember me as moderator of the official forum. UltraHLE gave me the inspiration to start my site (cookies to anyone who can remember it's name), which eventually morphed into emuhelp. ultrahle is written for dated technology, using dated coding methods. The usefulness of the source is practically nill, as it would require the core of what made ultrahle great to be abandoned for serious improvement. the limit that ultrahle should be changed is to fix the bugs we all spent many many years correcting by other means. Other than that, R.I.P.

[Martin]

I'm tired of this bullshit, have something constructive to say or don't say anything at all.

Now I am closing this thread, and don't dare open, reply, or alter it.

I have the final word around here, and it is a shame that I have to use it.