how long wud it take? [Archive]

sk8bloke22

June 23rd, 2002, 23:43

well i tried to learn visual basic and got not very far. depends how comitted u r to teaching something, and how easy u find it to pick it up. in terms to program an emu, from wat ive learnt, u need to be pretty damn good at using the coding language as unlike learning the language (which can be done reasonably easily through tutorials and simplistic guides), emulaters hav far less documentation, and u hav to understand the language well enough to apply it to ur own ability, if u get me. get a C++ tutorial and C++ (or even easier start with visual basic) and give it a go, it cant do u any harm, and is something useful to know. i cant really answer how long its gonna take u, i mean if u say 'how long does it take to learn algebra', for some they'll pick it up instantly, whilst others will be banging their heads against a wall trying to understand it.

Doomulation

June 24th, 2002, 00:04

So you've been trying to visual basic, eh?
It's very easy actually to let you know. It's a good starting language, although it's not quite as powerful as c++, but yet good enough. You just need to learn it.

If you do, feel free to ask me questions--I'm the master of it ;)

BTW, talkin' to ya both.

sk8bloke22

June 24th, 2002, 00:50

i cant be arsed with it, all learning visual basic did was remind how much i hated maths.

Doomulation

June 24th, 2002, 00:58

Originally posted by sk8bloke22
i cant be arsed with it, all learning visual basic did was remind how much i hated maths.
Lol, it's probably one of the best languages to program in.
But, hey, I too, hated to do maths, so we're the same on that topic.

mesman00

June 24th, 2002, 02:12

my opinion differs from most, i say start w/ c++, then if u even care to, try vb. i say this because when u start with c++ you learn the fundamentals of programming better than you would if you started with vb. personally, i started with vb, and ill i did was read a copy code from a book, thought i was programming. NOPE! when i turned to c++, that is when i began actually LEARNING.

Doomulation

June 24th, 2002, 03:00

Originally posted by mesman00
my opinion differs from most, i say start w/ c++, then if u even care to, try vb. i say this because when u start with c++ you learn the fundamentals of programming better than you would if you started with vb. personally, i started with vb, and ill i did was read a copy code from a book, thought i was programming. NOPE! when i turned to c++, that is when i began actually LEARNING.
BAH! Do you know how hard c++ really is?
You'd start with VB, 'cuz it's programming--and it's easy! You'll learn the basics of programming.
Then, get a good tutorial of c++ how it works a little, and about the compiler and stuff, and you're pretty much ready for c++.

Jsr

June 24th, 2002, 05:23

I was also one who used VB, but now almost always using C++. It's a difficult language to learn, but when you start to get it, is it not as hard as it looks like. Actually, I now like it better then VB. If you want to do an emulator is VB not to think of, even if it's possible with lower systems, like the NES ;)
But we don't have to forget that VB actually is the most popular language.
However, to learn C++ took only a couple of months, with a good book. I guess its easier when you have some kind of experience before. But now I think I know it as well as I do with VB. For win programming is all info you need in the MSDN library.

linker

June 24th, 2002, 05:42

Originally posted by Doomulation

BAH! Do you know how hard c++ really is?

Nope, he doesn't know. Why don't you tell us how hard is it, doom :P.

Malcolm

June 24th, 2002, 06:07

To learn programming I would suggest starting off with Visual Basic (you can download version 3.0 for free off Microsoft).

Now why would you want to start off with such a "Basic" language? Just for that reason, it’s basic. You'll learn how programs are structured and what type of logic to use.

Now, Visual basic isn't the only good thing to start off with. If you don't feel like downloading a 5mb file from Microsoft you can always just program in QBASIC, the free DOS application.

Now with QBasic you won't be able to program any amazing graphical displays, but as I stated earlier, you'll learn how to structure your program and how to put logic problems into code.

Of course you could always go into C++, a high level language more difficult language to learn for beginners, you’re going to have to learn the basic programming skills in a more complex environment.

Your choice. If you want to go in smoothly, learn one of the basic languages and get the "basics" of computer programming. If you want to have a huge chance of getting confused with programming jump right into C++.

Also once you learn C++ you'll have the bases of almost all computer languages. JavaScript, for example, is a language I learned in about 5 minutes with my knowledge of C++, the structure is very similar.

Anyways, that’s just my 2 cents, now back to work ;).

{Edit}
Sorry, its actually Visual Basic version 5 which you can download, only thing about it you can't compile your program for distribution, but you still can run them in VB.

Heres a download link (from MS)
http://download.microsoft.com/msdownload/sbn/vbcce/vb5ccein.exe
:)
{/Edit}

mesman00

June 24th, 2002, 10:00

umm, first of all, i never said c++ wasn't a hard language to grasp, and yes, i do now how hard it really is, so if your gonna give me shit for my opinion, fuck off.

Malcolm

June 24th, 2002, 12:44

? ? ?
Shit about you opinion, where do you see that? I was just stating how I've taught people, whats with the attitude man?

Doomulation

June 24th, 2002, 14:51

Heh, right. Now all I need for c++ is a good book on how to convert all the types, classes and stuff mostly. And of course, some help on how to solve compile errors.

Then I'm all set :)

linker

June 24th, 2002, 18:37

Originally posted by Malcolm
? ? ?
Shit about you opinion, where do you see that? I was just stating how I've taught people, whats with the attitude man?

Am...

Originally posted by Doomulation
BAH! Do you know how hard c++ really is?

and...

Originally posted by mesman00
umm, first of all, i never said c++ wasn't a hard language to grasp, and yes, i do now how hard it really is, so if your gonna give me shit for my opinion, fuck off.

So, he wasn't talking to you, Mal ;)

icepir8

June 24th, 2002, 18:40

Each language has its strong points. VB is good at fast developement of GUI programs. C++ is very powerful, If it can't be done in C++ it probably can't be done in any language. I've done simple emulators in VB. But when I want the fastest exe speed posible or have to do anything that involves indirection I use C or C++. sometimes I use VB and C++ together. I use VB for the GUI and C++ for the DLLs or OCXs to do the work.

How long is up to you.

Doomulation

June 24th, 2002, 18:51

Intresting point there by icepir.
I like the GUI-making better in VB than I do in C++ ...
But it's a good point of which I've already used, heh.
Never thouht about using it this much, though.

Malcolm

June 24th, 2002, 22:18

Originally posted by linker

Am...

and...

So, he wasn't talking to you, Mal ;)

heh, oops :sleepy:

mesman00

June 24th, 2002, 22:50

yah, sorry for any misinterpration, and i was pissed last night about something else anyway, so back to normal...

Trotterwatch

June 25th, 2002, 00:59

I checked for the version of VB3 on Microsofts Website last night, couldn't find it at all - so I assume the have stopped giving it away. Just read the edit Malcolm , Visual Basic 5 for free; even better!

I am interested in learning to program, what would you all recommend as a good way to start?

Any recommendations on a easy to use C++ Compiler?

Doomulation

June 25th, 2002, 02:15

Originally posted by Trotterwatch
I checked for the version of VB3 on Microsofts Website last night, couldn't find it at all - so I assume the have stopped giving it away. Just read the edit Malcolm , Visual Basic 5 for free; even better!

I am interested in learning to program, what would you all recommend as a good way to start?

Any recommendations on a easy to use C++ Compiler?
First off, go for VB. Download the free trial and learn to use it before buying it.

As for a c++ compiler, doh! Get MS Visual C++!

Trotterwatch

June 25th, 2002, 02:19

As for a c++ compiler, doh! Get MS Visual C++!

I bet that was really obvious, but I'm a complete newbie at C++, I couldn't even program a Hello World style excercise just yet. I looked at Borland C++ things like that... Anyways I'll look into picking up MS VC++, thanks for the recommendation.

Doomulation

June 25th, 2002, 02:20

Originally posted by Trotterwatch

I bet that was really obvious, but I'm a complete newbie at C++, I couldn't even program a Hello World style excercise just yet. I looked at Borland C++ things like that... Anyways I'll look into picking up MS VC++, thanks for the recommendation.
The worry isn't to compile, but to program as you see.
To compile your app, simply press F7.
So first you need to learn how to program in c++. I know a little, so don't come ask me about it :P

Malcolm

June 25th, 2002, 02:24

hello world, with one include:

#include <iostream.h>

void main
{
cout << "Hello World";
}

wow, fun fun

And you can get many compilers, actuall I think you can get the gcc++ compiler off the net for Windows...

Trotterwatch

June 25th, 2002, 02:36

Will check that out as well then. I got a nice little easy to use Compiler last night - trouble is, it was for C only, and not C++.

Doomulation

June 25th, 2002, 02:39

Why would you want the compiler without the language itself?
And that hello world app...i don't like it, i never did. Shows a stupid dos-box.

Trotterwatch

June 25th, 2002, 02:42

Well, eventually I'd need a compiler. Also it makes sense to compile work as I go along - so I can figure out any mistakes I am making and such.

At the moment though I do like that look of that Visual Basic I downloaded, seems quite easy to use.

Doomulation

June 25th, 2002, 02:45

Originally posted by Trotterwatch
Well, eventually I'd need a compiler. Also it makes sense to compile work as I go along - so I can figure out any mistakes I am making and such.

At the moment though I do like that look of that Visual Basic I downloaded, seems quite easy to use.
Erm... VC++ has a an easy-to-use compiler included. It is runned from GUI and everything that the compiler reports is shown in a little list, on what line the error is, etc. You can even double-click it to jump to that line.

Trotterwatch

June 25th, 2002, 02:46

Which is why I asked for recommendations, such a piece of software would be invaluable to me as a total novice.

Malcolm

June 25th, 2002, 02:47

Originally posted by Doomulation
Why would you want the compiler without the language itself?
And that hello world app...i don't like it, i never did. Shows a stupid dos-box.
Would you like me to indlude the windows header and create a Windows messgae box that pops up?

Remember not every OS runs off the Windows header ;)

I know almost everyone here programs under windows but ya never know when someone may be running off a *unix/bsd/"OS/2 " system, this will work under all those OSs.

:)

oh and Trotterwatch,
Im glad your liking VB, its not very intimidating, thats anyther reason I think newbies should start off with it :).

If you need help with starting off go to http://www.vbworld.com , They have alot of tutorials and help forums you can browser through.

{Edit}
oh yea, and why would you want a compiler insted of the language?

With both c/c++ the language is basic text. thats right, your programming (source) isn't encripted in any magical way, its just got a nice *.c of *.cpp extension. It can be created in a text editor such as Notepad/wordpad/EMacs then its just sent into the compiler with some command like optimizations/options. This is the same with VC++. VC++ just makes everything look pretty, also for anyone running KDE/GNOME I came accross a nice looking C/C++ compiler that has many of the same features as VC++, I'll post a link in a few mins for ya'll :)
{/edit}

Trotterwatch

June 25th, 2002, 02:49

Thanks a bundle for all the help Malcolm, I've bookmarked that site now.

Time for me to go and make a Gamecube Emulatore, jk :)

Doomulation

June 25th, 2002, 02:50

http://www.planet-source-code.com/vb
Here you'll get a lot of free code.

BTW, are you guys recieving e-mails all the time and go here to reply since you'r replying so fast?

Trotterwatch

June 25th, 2002, 02:51

Thanks for the link as well Doomulation, and yep I am replying as soon as I receive the mails.

Doomulation

June 25th, 2002, 02:54

Originally posted by Trotterwatch
Thanks for the link as well Doomulation, and yep I am replying as soon as I receive the mails.
Lol, I thought so.
BTW, ask me if there's anything you don't understand in VB.
I'm the VB GOD!

Trotterwatch

June 25th, 2002, 02:59

Will do. At the moment I'm reading the article by Karl Moore on vbworld.com, it's really easy to understand even for a Novice.

I'm liking VB a lot at the moment.

Malcolm

June 25th, 2002, 03:00

for those who don't know I edited that post up there, but you guys replied so fast I don't think you read it.

Anyways heres that link to the VC++ comparable compiler:
http://anjuta.sourceforge.net/

:)

Doomulation

June 25th, 2002, 03:03

Tell me about it!
Would you like 100 pages long topics anyway?
Done is done anyway...

Teamz

June 25th, 2002, 03:07

Originally posted by Doomulation

Lol, I thought so.
BTW, ask me if there's anything you don't understand in VB.
I'm the VB GOD!

LOL

zorbid

June 25th, 2002, 03:41

What about DevC++/MinGW? I'm learing cpp atm, and I grabbed this one because it was smaller than Visual C. The latest version (beta) looks neat, but I can't compare it with VC, since I don't have it. What are the main differences?

Jsr

June 25th, 2002, 05:23

Originally posted by zorbid
What about DevC++/MinGW? I'm learing cpp atm, and I grabbed this one because it was smaller than Visual C. The latest version (beta) looks neat, but I can't compare it with VC, since I don't have it. What are the main differences?

Umm, lots of differences. I think VC++ is better on everything, except for that it cost. There you have tools to create resources, gets help when coding and stuff. And I also thinks that the error reporting in DevC++ not is the best. I really recommend VC++.

linker

June 25th, 2002, 20:11

Originally posted by Teamz

LOL

ROFL

Hacktarux

June 29th, 2002, 17:17

I think that when you start with vb it gives you bad programming practice. There's so much things that are tolerate by vb and that shouldn't be used...

I remember that in my school, we have started to learn c language with the gcc compiler. Then we progressively move to c++ to learn object oriented programming.

Then when we have good programming skill we have learnt a bit of java and vb.

Remember that the c++ language can be really simple if you are making simple thing. Then when you have a great knowledge of this language you can do really complex stuffs. The only problem is that building a windows gui in c is harder than in many other languages, but it is not due to the language itself, it is the windows library's fault.

My personnal suggestion to learn programming is the java language. It's so easy to program in java. Programming the gui is like a dream. The error messages are really easy to understand. The language is really strict and it is not an object oriented programming language, it is an object programming language. I think that if you start with java you'll get really great practice. What else... the compiler is free.

linker

June 29th, 2002, 18:14

the interpreter* ;))

Doomulation

June 29th, 2002, 18:51

Another thing you could do is to start with VB .net
It probably compiles as fast as c++ and it's sort-of strict. But it can be hard to use.

linker

June 29th, 2002, 19:32

Hacktarux just said that it's not good to start with vb
oh well...

Doomulation

June 30th, 2002, 01:42

Originally posted by linker
Hacktarux just said that it's not good to start with vb
oh well...
Linker, the reason why i suggested that is that .net is completly diffrent from previous versions.
It's probably just as good as c++, just as fast, and yet the easiest in .net.
It is, however, much more powerful than previous.

mesman00

June 30th, 2002, 02:57

Hacktarux, could'nt agree with you anymore, thats exactly what i said, and how i feel.

linker

June 30th, 2002, 05:24

Originally posted by Doomulation

Linker, the reason why i suggested that is that .net is completly diffrent from previous versions.
It's probably just as good as c++, just as fast, and yet the easiest in .net.
It is, however, much more powerful than previous.

Hmm... i've never coded in vb.net so i can't say anything... maybe it's better than the previous verions.

Doomulation

June 30th, 2002, 05:26

Originally posted by linker

Hmm... i've never coded in vb.net so i can't say anything... maybe it's better than the previos verions.
Indeed. I've even read a tutorial (mastering visual basic .net) which describes this.
And I've seen for myself, how much changes it has become. It now has access to almost all os functions wrapped up in classes. It also is type strict, which previous versions wasn't.

There's much more too, but I haven't learned everything :P

EddyB43

July 5th, 2002, 19:17

I don't think this was truly stated, so I'll say it. If you want to learn to program, C++ is a good place to start. You might as well download a free compiler (MinGW/DJGPP for MS platforms or the standard GCC for Linux/BSD) and a suitable text editor, preferably with C++ syntax colouring. I use UltraEdit (http://www.ultraedit.com) for this myself, and it works very well (also nice for stripping those evil overdumped ROMs and corrupted due to a crash downloads).

Now you have the software, you'll need to find a source of information on C++ itself. My Uni course which taught simplistic C++ (inheritance and composition classes were the last things covered in the first year) recommended a book published by Deitel and Deitel named "Learn to code C++"? (I don't have the book right here with me at the moment), in it's 3rd edition. It did cost a bit under £40, but if you're serious about learning it should teach you all the programming fundamentals you'll need, as well as most of the standard C++ language. You could of course find older editions of these C++ tomes for cheaper in bookshops and maybe on offer at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com).

If you don't want to spend that kind of money, then you should be able to find some good tutorials on C++ online. I find cplusplus.com (http://www.cplusplus.com) to be a good reference site with links to other compilers and sites.

As for Visual Basic, I'd only use it if I needed to code a Win32 GUI program easily. Once you have a lot of experience, you can code faster GUI programs with (Visual) C++. It should be noted most Windows apps you download/buy today are coded in C++, and not VB. For an example, the previously mentioned UltraEdit and VirtualDub (http://www.virtualdub.org), an excellent free AVI compression and capture program.

Whew, I hope that didn't blind anyone. ;)

*EDIT* A friend of mine (who coincidentally codes DOSBox (http://dosbox.zophar.net), a program that aims to emulate the PC sufficiently to get old DOS games perfectly functional in Windows, primarily NT platforms) recommended LCC-Win32 (http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32/) as a good free Win32 C++ compiler that should cope with a lot more GUI programming features.

Doomulation

July 5th, 2002, 19:26

Originally posted by EddyB43
I don't think this was truly stated, so I'll say it. If you want to learn to program, C++ is a good place to start. You might as well download a free compiler (MinGW/DJGPP for MS platforms or the standard GCC for Linux/BSD) and a suitable text editor, preferably with C++ syntax colouring. I use UltraEdit (http://www.ultraedit.com) for this myself, and it works very well (also nice for stripping those evil overdumped ROMs and corrupted due to a crash downloads).

Now you have the software, you'll need to find a source of information on C++ itself. My Uni course which taught simplistic C++ (inheritance and composition classes were the last things covered in the first year) recommended a book published by Deitel and Deitel named "Learn to code C++"? (I don't have the book right here with me at the moment), in it's 3rd edition. It did cost a bit under £40, but if you're serious about learning it should teach you all the programming fundamentals you'll need, as well as most of the standard C++ language. You could of course find older editions of these C++ tomes for cheaper in bookshops and maybe on offer at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com).

If you don't want to spend that kind of money, then you should be able to find some good tutorials on C++ online. I find cplusplus.com (http://www.cplusplus.com) to be a good reference site with links to other compilers and sites.

As for Visual Basic, I'd only use it if I needed to code a Win32 GUI program easily. Once you have a lot of experience, you can code faster GUI programs with (Visual) C++. It should be noted most Windows apps you download/buy today are coded in C++, and not VB. For an example, the previously mentioned UltraEdit and VirtualDub (http://www.virtualdub.org), an excellent free AVI compression and capture program.

Whew, I hope that didn't blind anyone. ;)

*EDIT* A friend of mine (who coincidentally codes DOSBox (http://dosbox.zophar.net), a program that aims to emulate the PC sufficiently to get old DOS games perfectly functional in Windows, primarily NT platforms) recommended LCC-Win32 (http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32/) as a good free Win32 C++ compiler that should cope with a lot more GUI programming features.
Yes, most programs are written in C++, but the fact remains: VB .net is VERY powerful. Perhaps just as powerful as c++. But it is much easier to use.

This is indeed a good program to use. It does, however, have bad stuff left from the previous versions, but it is overall good.

CyRUS64

July 6th, 2002, 06:46

If it can't be done in C++ it probably can't be done in any language.
Other than those tasks that can only be done in asm :)
eg: low-level console dev'ing such as on the dreamcast, where the only way to sensibly make use of integral parts of the sh4 instruction set is to use asm... for example the standard homebrew way to send display lists to the powervr2 is using the PREF instruction with address 0x1*******, as opposed to using dma which could technically be done in c/c++.
So, of course, asm is the only language to do everything u'd ever want!

GouldFish

July 12th, 2002, 08:02

I have always thought that you should start with a langue like basic or comal or better yet true basic.
this is so you get to understand the basic's of codeing, such as functions, layout, commenting and corect style of coding.

Then you can move on to c++ to do you or "serious" coding.
I think VB is more a step back to "basic" but I have not looked into it enough yet but I am planning on it
(another langue to add to my growing list o f c, basic comal java etc.)

Oh and it not difficult to make GUI's in borland c++, I've been doing it for over a year now..

mesman00

July 12th, 2002, 08:21

its not that difficult in vc++ either, the win api looks ten time more complicated then it really is.

Malcolm

July 12th, 2002, 08:52

Speaking of winapi i need some help.
ok I'm trying to call a dialog box from a menu in a dialog box
heres my code:

BOOL CALLBACK AboutDlgProc(HWND hwnd, UINT Message, WPARAM wParam, LPARAM lParam)
{
switch(Message)
{
case WM_INITDIALOG:

return TRUE;
case WM_COMMAND:
switch(LOWORD(wParam))
{
case IDOK:
EndDialog(hwnd, IDOK);
break;
}
break;
default:
return FALSE;
}
return TRUE;
}

thats starts up the dialog window settings and how to act when i press Mr. Button ;)
next is where and how im staring the code:

BOOL CALLBACK MainDlgProc(HWND hwnd, UINT Message, WPARAM wParam, LPARAM lParam)
{

char path_buffer[_MAX_PATH], s[1000];
int index;
HWND hwndCombo;
OPENFILENAME oifn;

switch(Message)
{
case WM_INITDIALOG:
-----{blah blah blah}---------
case WM_COMMAND:
switch(LOWORD(wParam))
{
-----{lots of case statements}------

case IDD_ABOUT: <<--that about is suposta be caps but emutalk keeps putting it in lower case

DialogBox( GetModuleHandle(NULL), MAKEINTRESOURCE(IDD_ABOUT), NULL, AboutDlgProc );
break;
-----{more case statements}-------
default:
return FALSE;
}
return TRUE;
}

and this is whats in my resource file (for the about window):

IDD_ABOUT DIALOG DISCARDABLE 0, 0, 240, 119
STYLE DS_MODALFRAME | WS_POPUP | WS_CAPTION | WS_SYSMENU
CAPTION "About"
MENU 104
FONT 8, "MS Sans Serif"
BEGIN
DEFPUSHBUTTON "OK",IDOK,159,98,73,14
END

Now the problem is when I click the about menu nuttin happens, anyone got a clue why?
Ok, so whos got an answer ;)

{edit}
Oh and if your wondering it compiles and runs fine
{/edit}

Jsr

July 13th, 2002, 04:56

Malcolm:
You are specifying IDD_ABOUT as the command to display the dialog. You need to enter the name of the menu item.

Malcolm

July 13th, 2002, 11:18

THANK YOU!!!!!!
I just read the code and I was assigning 2 values to the same variable, thanks again :)

MisterE

July 13th, 2002, 21:20

well, i read many times to begin with VB and then move to VC++.
But they say that VB gives a lot of bad habits, so why don't start with Delphi (strange that nobody mention it)

Delphi is stricted, Object Oriented and it's a real compiler. It is maybe somewhat more difficult but really a nice language.

btw: i only have a limited knowledge about VB, i did not like the language because it is slow and uses to much system resources.
Actually, i try to avoid those programs because all those programmers don't use 'error handling' so when soemthing is going wrong you have a problem...