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[Azimer]

Where is the party at in the emulation scene? I know I feel terribly out of touch with everyone and everything involving emulation. What has everyone been up to?

The last year has been quite interesting for me. Unfortunately I can't discuss most of it in a public forum. I have come to a stunning realization that there seems to be less interest in emulation now than there ever has been. Are most of the achievements achieved and most of the fun had from emulation? Sadly, I think so. There is hope still that the scene we are left with are those who want to be here for the enjoyment of it and not so much for free games.

The Nintendo 64 was released in 1996. I was working with emulation before that time and it makes me curious that the NES was released about 11 years previous to us in the states as is N64 about 11 years ago from today. Does this now mean N64 is no longer a "Next-Gen" emulator and is classified with the NES and SNES as legacy systems? I find that incredibly interesting (even if none of you do).

Last week I went to visit some guys I knew on IRC who have been working with NES for years. I couldn't believe quite a few of them were still around and working on NES development. Most of they were kindly helping the new people and it was the same atmosphere just different people. Why can't N64 development become like this? If there is such a group of people, why do I not know them? I might work a full-time job, pay taxes, vote for a losing candidate on tuesdays, but I will always find a spot of time for N64 emulation.

What is currently being developed for N64? From what I know there's a MESS N64 driver, schibo appears to be dinking around with 1964 privately (based on his post 6 months ago), zil and jabo slowly hacking at PJ with no promised release timeframe (both busy with their individual money making ventures), and Mupen has some 3rd party updates. Am I missing anything? Is there any new blood I haven't caught up with yet?

As some of you have known, I fell into the World of Warcrack population cesspool and have yet to kick my addiction. In addition to working 50-60 hour weeks when we get a new contract, I didn't have a lot of time for things. Why would I want to sit in from of a programming environment plugging away at an emulator when sitting in a zombie-like state staring at the backside of a tauren's ass seems much more entertaining? Unfortunately, that entertainment has run its course and they are planning to launch a new expansion. Unlike the last expansion, I have zero interest in seeing this new one. What I need now is something else to begin focusing my energies toward. Where's the party at and where can I get an invitation?

And to make this post relevant to the current forum. :apollo:

[smcd]

dreamcast emulation has picked up in the past year or two (nulldc, makaron, demul, and lxdream emerging and chankast fading into oblivion) gamecube and ps2 emulation are still being picked apart with fair progress too. the changes to mupen64 are welcomed by many, and pj64 changes will be too when it happens. emulation isn't dead, i don't think. another thing that seems to be popular these days is porting emulators to consoles/handhelds like the gp2x, psp, ds and creating a whole new "scene"

[Cyberman]

The people who were interested in emulation grew up and got jobs?

I still have the little bit of source left from the Apollo GL graphics plugin.

I am involved quietly in two emulation projects (3 actually)

emulation of Square Soft's game engines (think scumvm for Square data instead of Lucas arts).
emulation of 80c51 micro controllers for expermentation purposes
Related to hi rez texture pack stuff. Not to be discussed really outcome should be interesting (I have finally settled into schedule I can get stuff done in for the projects).
I forgot a little bit of modification to PCSX this may prove to be a totally useless bit of fun but, after examining PCSX GTE and GPU interfaces I think I can have some fun.
Considering a project using soruce engine and GMOD. This should be a lot of fun.I tend to have too many interests to get things done.

Another problem is I love playing games a LOT. :D

I do not like the net games too much however. I love NWN (NWN2 is not good for online just playing single player). I have every version of the FF series save XI and I never will have XI either. It's the worst of all the FF series of games. I like to work at my pace on games so net stuff is no good for me. :)

Cyb

[Azimer]

The people who were interested in emulation grew up and got jobs?


Jobs are bad mmkay! {}:{

Yeah this is about what happen. However, I have the hope that emulation can evolve into something more mature.

It's good to see you are still involved. In the near future I am looking to get more involved. My subscription ends soon and my job is currently between contracts with no prospects for the rest of this quarter. :)

These Hi-Rez texture projects seem interesting and I wonder how difficult it would be to implement in a graphics plugin. I know I've been wanting to take that graphics plugin you've mentioned and rewrite it for DX9 using shaders. There is also the promised MusyX support that is only half implemented. We'll see what happens.

Either way I am happy to not have so much work to do... :bouncy:

[X-Fi6]

I know what hasn't changed: me using your HLE Audio v0.56 WIP II! Seriously it's the best audio plugin I've ever used. I use it to send audio lists and Jabo's to produce the sound with Hacktarux's RSP plugin that comes with Mupen64.

And N64 emulation isn't dead yet--only lots of features in EmuTalk. :P Whatever happened to that .htaccess rewrite add-on? It's annoying when in old posts I have to copy the parts in the URLs and paste them into another one to make the link work...

[Azimer]

And N64 emulation isn't dead yet

I hope you're right! I am glad someone is still using my work. :) Here's to whatever I decide to pour my energies into. :cheers:

[revl8er]

I still use the audio plugin as well, but I haven't had the time for emulation as I did before. I'm too much into my other games right now. I'm looking forward to some new updates for me to try out in the future though.

[Slougi]

I'm a bit saddened by the current state as well. I think many many old-timers still check the board every now and then, but many have also simply taken off. Grown up, got jobs, started families, not interested in the community or what is left of it, or whatever the reason. You need just look at the emu64 irc chan to see just how much activity there is nowadays - pretty much none at all. In fact:

06:20 -!- Azimer [~Azimer@xx-xxx-xxx-xxx.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has joined #emulation64
06:20 -!- CKemu [~CKemu@client-xx-xx-xx-xx.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 615 seconds]
06:33 -!- CKemu2 is now known as CKemu
07:03 -!- Azimer [~Azimer@xx-xxx-xxx-xxx.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has quit []

That about sums it up I guess. A far cry from a few years ago.

I also find it interesting that N64 emulation has not become like the (S)NES emu scenes. I think one aspect of it is that the n64 is just that much more complex and doing developing emus or doing rom hacking is a lot more difficult. From a personal perspective I must also admit that the old 2d games have much more charm in general than most n64 games...

If there's a party somewhere I'd like an invitation as well. Hint hint. ;)

[MasterPhW]

Where is the party at in the emulation scene? I know I feel terribly out of touch with everyone and everything involving emulation. What has everyone been up to?

The last year has been quite interesting for me. Unfortunately I can't discuss most of it in a public forum. I have come to a stunning realization that there seems to be less interest in emulation now than there ever has been. Are most of the achievements achieved and most of the fun had from emulation? Sadly, I think so. There is hope still that the scene we are left with are those who want to be here for the enjoyment of it and not so much for free games.

The Nintendo 64 was released in 1996. I was working with emulation before that time and it makes me curious that the NES was released about 11 years previous to us in the states as is N64 about 11 years ago from today. Does this now mean N64 is no longer a "Next-Gen" emulator and is classified with the NES and SNES as legacy systems? I find that incredibly interesting (even if none of you do).

Last week I went to visit some guys I knew on IRC who have been working with NES for years. I couldn't believe quite a few of them were still around and working on NES development. Most of they were kindly helping the new people and it was the same atmosphere just different people. Why can't N64 development become like this? If there is such a group of people, why do I not know them? I might work a full-time job, pay taxes, vote for a losing candidate on tuesdays, but I will always find a spot of time for N64 emulation.

What is currently being developed for N64? From what I know there's a MESS N64 driver, schibo appears to be dinking around with 1964 privately (based on his post 6 months ago), zil and jabo slowly hacking at PJ with no promised release timeframe (both busy with their individual money making ventures), and Mupen has some 3rd party updates. Am I missing anything? Is there any new blood I haven't caught up with yet?

As some of you have known, I fell into the World of Warcrack population cesspool and have yet to kick my addiction. In addition to working 50-60 hour weeks when we get a new contract, I didn't have a lot of time for things. Why would I want to sit in from of a programming environment plugging away at an emulator when sitting in a zombie-like state staring at the backside of a tauren's ass seems much more entertaining? Unfortunately, that entertainment has run its course and they are planning to launch a new expansion. Unlike the last expansion, I have zero interest in seeing this new one. What I need now is something else to begin focusing my energies toward. Where's the party at and where can I get an invitation?

And to make this post relevant to the current forum. :apollo:
It's great to see some old known faces back at ET.
You, as a great pioneer of N64 emulation, said some wise words.
It would be really great to have a community like in the (S)NES scene, but I think that won't happen in near future. But we'll see, eg. the Mupen Linux port is already a big community project, it happens more, than all other N64 emulators together.
Btw: I've remember some years ago a little IRC chat, where you told, that you want to rewrite Apollo nearly from scratch, but I think you've dropped that, didn't you?
I'm still using Apollo and your Sound Plugin aswell, would be great to see some more contrubition from you! ;)
:apollo:

[Azimer]

It's great to see some old known faces back at ET.
You, as a great pioneer of N64 emulation, said some wise words.
It would be really great to have a community like in the (S)NES scene, but I think that won't happen in near future. But we'll see, eg. the Mupen Linux port is already a big community project, it happens more, than all other N64 emulators together.
Btw: I've remember some years ago a little IRC chat, where you told, that you want to rewrite Apollo nearly from scratch, but I think you've dropped that, didn't you?
I'm still using Apollo and your Sound Plugin aswell, would be great to see some more contrubition from you! ;)
:apollo:

I did rewrite large sections of it but it was far from scratch. I am slightly uplifted knowing some still lurk around here. As slougi said earlier, some people have grown up, started, families, etc. etc. I've decided to be selfish with my life and not have any children. My siblings have done enough of that where I don't have to! :) Now if only I could find a woman who agrees with my attitude. You wouldn't think that would be so hard. lol

[MasterPhW]

I did rewrite large sections of it but it was far from scratch. I am slightly uplifted knowing some still lurk around here. As slougi said earlier, some people have grown up, started, families, etc. etc. I've decided to be selfish with my life and not have any children. My siblings have done enough of that where I don't have to! :) Now if only I could find a woman who agrees with my attitude. You wouldn't think that would be so hard. lol
Let's go clubbing Azi, we'll find you a fine girl! :party:
Yeah, I didn't remember the IRC chat completely (long time ago, you know), but I had in my mind, that you said something like that, scratch or not, that's not important, it's just nice to hear, that you really worked a little bit on it, even when it probably never go public.
:apollo:

[EmuFan]

I first got into emulation back in´98, and have been following it up close ever since. I have to agree with most of the points you are making, back then, when N64 emulation entered the scene, it was crazy.

I actually tried UltraHLE when it first came out, but my computer wasn´t strong enough (2 GB HDD, lol), so i had to put that on hold for awhile.

I have been getting into DS emulation lately, since i now have a chance to with my upgraded PC. And Lo and behold, seing the games that i already have on the original run full speed is just...magical.

There may be a little spark of interest left considering emulation, but it has weakened since there isn´t so much going on. I mean gosh, we were bombarded with emulators when it first started. A bit slow at first, but eventually they were rolling at quite an impressive pase. (emulation, not emulators.)

When i ran DS emulators full speed, i got the very same feeling as when i tried Atari NES, SNES and N64 emulation. Sort of a exilerating feeling.

My brother says "you already have the game, what´s the point?" Seeing it happen, is what! Seeing what normal mortals like us is capable of. The fact that you don´t have to be Shigsy to make it happen.

[Azimer]

Let's go clubbing Azi, we'll find you a fine girl! :party:
Yeah, I didn't remember the IRC chat completely (long time ago, you know), but I had in my mind, that you said something like that, scratch or not, that's not important, it's just nice to hear, that you really worked a little bit on it, even when it probably never go public.
:apollo:

I canceled my subscription today and have plenty of free time I suppose. Let's go have fun, have a few brews, and paint the town red. Then I must get serious!

My intention is to spent quite a bit of this new found time finding new work. The job I have is great but I am tired of the rollercoaster ride. Between February of last year until December I was working close to 50 hours a week! Now I am finding enough time in the office to write posts on emutalk! I am bringing in a flashdrive of source code and pissing around with emulation at work. I am waiting for the bread crumbs of support from past projects to hit my todo list. Me being bored is a bad thing as I get restless and lazy.

That said, I am excited about things ahead. I had a conversation with a former co-worker (and now a good friend). He is actually interested in playing around with a NES emulator after I described the design challenges of writing an efficient and accurate emulator. I told him he's my padawan... he then called me master (bater). We then had a row of sorts all in fun.

Anywho... this isn't some flash in the pan interest in emulation from me. I am intending to keep this thread going and keep you updated on any of my developments.

Speaking of developments, stop by the tech forum and answer my question. I am looking for a solid development laptop to spend my tax return on. Any good leads is appreciated.

[Ly Mathews]

It's really nice to see you're still excited about developing. Dude, you're a living legend!

[olivieryuyu]

Good to see you back Azi :-)

Well the N64 emulation scene slowed down, that is true.

But there is still a lot of interest for this system which appears more "legit" to be emulated than few years ago (as the nes; snes). If the Mame team is developing a N64 driver, it is clear that N64 emulation reached another step.

From my point of view the big change are:

- LLE emulation (Mame) with its incredible development of a gfx plugin, Z64 from Ziggy. It helped a lot some HLE developments.

- HLE emulation is now leaded by Glide64. With the coming next release it will be the most advance gfx plugin in HLE.

- Mupen is now the most attractive and interesting project. I hope that its development will continue futher

- In sound nothing at all :(.

- The input plugin nrage is still in dev. Very good plugin.

- Few others things as n64 prototypes found, some source releases, some things understood (For WCC and Stunt Racer)

[mudlord]

These Hi-Rez texture projects seem interesting and I wonder how difficult it would be to implement in a graphics plugin. I know I've been wanting to take that graphics plugin you've mentioned and rewrite it for DX9 using shaders.

Now that would be cool. I could use some help with the project. Its not helping my interest is starting to wane and I'm extremely busy with university.

But, if your interested, that would be super cool. And it would put some life back into the thing, after what I did.

[Azimer]

I could use some help with the project.

I'm sorry. What project are you involved with?

[Azimer]

Good to see you back Azi :-)

From my point of view the big change are:

- LLE emulation (Mame) with its incredible development of a gfx plugin, Z64 from Ziggy. It helped a lot some HLE developments.

- HLE emulation is now leaded by Glide64. With the coming next release it will be the most advance gfx plugin in HLE.

- Mupen is now the most attractive and interesting project. I hope that its development will continue futher

- In sound nothing at all :(.

- The input plugin nrage is still in dev. Very good plugin.

- Few others things as n64 prototypes found, some source releases, some things understood (For WCC and Stunt Racer)

Glad to see you too! Tell me a little bit about what you bullet-pointed. What is Z64 and who is Ziggy? What HLE developments? Sounds very interesting as LLE emulation has been around for awhile, just not publically.

HLE by Glide64? Isn't Glide dead? I thought it was a wrapper. Tell me more.

I am most interested in your last bullet point. If you are unable to say anything for the world to see, please PM.

Thanks for the summary. :)

[olivieryuyu]

Glide64 is a HLE plugin that used glide as API.

As the development continue, an excellent wrapper in OGL was created. It is nearly impossible to see a difference between the use of a voodoo5 and the wrapper.

Here the website:

http://glide64.emuxhaven.net/

a load of screenshots of the coming version can be seen on the forum:

http://www.emuxhaven.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5499&page=30

:-)

[mudlord]

I'm sorry. What project are you involved with?

I'm involved with Rice Video, after Rice stopped working on it. :)

[NES_player4LIFE]

I'm involved with Rice Video, after Rice stopped working on it. :)

and he is doing a good job on it too:w00t:

nice to see you around Azimer :D

[_Zack_]

^^ What he said :)

Thanks for all your hard work over the years on N64 emulation Azimer, you rule :D

[Azimer]

and he is doing a good job on it too:w00t:

nice to see you around Azimer :D

I wish I was still around when Rice quit. I haven't spoken to him in years. :(

[mudlord]

Rice did pop around some time ago though...
He helped me out with some things, but I haven't seen him since...

[NES_player4LIFE]

yes rice is a legend
everybody wants him back

[MasterPhW]

Btw: just a little suggestion and not much work either: the website of Apollo, it really needs an overhaul, because it has its classic values, but now in 2008 it would be great to see it updated...
Just a suggestion! :)
It's really nice to have you back Azi!

[Azimer]

Btw: just a little suggestion and not much work either: the website of Apollo, it really needs an overhaul, because it has its classic values, but now in 2008 it would be great to see it updated...
Just a suggestion! :)
It's really nice to have you back Azi!

The site as a whole needs an overhaul. I will consider this more in the future. For now, everything I will need to post will be done here.

I also lost the login information for the main site. :(

[_Zack_]

I also lost the login information for the main site. :(

I hate it when that happens :(

Happens to me when I don't go on the internet for a month or longer lol

[Cyberman]

The site as a whole needs an overhaul. I will consider this more in the future. For now, everything I will need to post will be done here.

I also lost the login information for the main site. :( Ouch. Well you could ask an Administrator to reset the passwords (They are still breathing here).

As for me my latest project will be error correction fun I think. I am not so much a sadist that I LIKE calculating Reed Solomon matrices but it has peeked my interest due to projects at work.

As I have learned the hard way it's best to start old stuff small again. Since I myself have forgot half of what I did in the past (sad I know).

Cyb

[PistolGrip]

Azimer, did you check this out?

http://www.emutalk.net/showthread.php?t=40311

Hacking N64 roms so that the frame limited 20/30fps games (mario, zelda, etc) run at 60fps on an overclocked N64 might be something you could get interested in... ;)

Check out Goldeneye at 60fps to see how much better it can be.

[Azimer]

Azimer, did you check this out?

http://www.emutalk.net/showthread.php?t=40311

Hacking N64 roms so that the frame limited 20/30fps games (mario, zelda, etc) run at 60fps on an overclocked N64 might be something you could get interested in... ;)

Check out Goldeneye at 60fps to see how much better it can be.

From my understanding, this isn't exactly hacking roms. You are only adding more cycles between each timed exception. It doesn't suprised me that it helps GoldenEye in the slow spots, but I don't believe it'd do much good for Mario64 as its true framerate is tied directly to the retrace counter.

[Azimer]

Ouch. Well you could ask an Administrator to reset the passwords (They are still breathing here).


It really isn't a big deal. I don't do emulation for fancy websites, people's commentary on forums, or even a sense of accomplishment. I enjoy seeing how things work and if other people get to benefit from it, great.

[PistolGrip]

From my understanding, this isn't exactly hacking roms. You are only adding more cycles between each timed exception. It doesn't suprised me that it helps GoldenEye in the slow spots, but I don't believe it'd do much good for Mario64 as its true framerate is tied directly to the retrace counter.

No, GoldenEye/Perfect Dark do not need hacking as their timing works independently of the frame rate and they try and draw as many frames as they can, kinda like most PC games. Most of GoldenEye is a "low spot" it rarely achieves over 20fps on the real N64, and very often drops to 10-15fps. You'd have to play it at a constant 60fps to really see the difference as words don't do it justice.

The games I am saying need hacking are the Mario64 type ones, which draw over multiple frames (2 in Mario64's case, 3 in Zelda's). You would change the code so that they do it all in one frame instead, and adjust any game based timing which maybe relied on a constant "30fps".

Even in those games there is benefits to running them UNMODIFIED on an overclocked N64, San Francisco Rush which is limited to 30fps often drops below 30fps when playing split screen for example. I'm sure even Zelda drops below it's low 20fps time to time on a normal N64, which it wouldn't on an overclocked one.

[DanielKO]

The people who were interested in emulation grew up and got jobs?

Not trying to spoil Azimer's nostalgic rant, but this had to be said. It's no surprising when the community is a ghetto; eventually the superstars will lose interest, change priorities, be hit by a bus, etc; and Darwin will find its course.

[Azimer]

Not trying to spoil Azimer's nostalgic rant, but this had to be said. It's no surprising when the community is a ghetto; eventually the superstars will lose interest, change priorities, be hit by a bus, etc; and Darwin will find its course.

Rant? I take exception to that word choice! What I am more surprised about is the lack of new blood in the community. It seems everyone dropped off N64 in favor of Gamecube. N64 emulation has a lot of work left.

[angrylion]

You were asking what is Z64 and who is Ziggy. So here's the link http://www.emutalk.net/showthread.php?t=40640.
Ziggy emulated RDP and RSP at a low level. He made especially nice progress with RDP, so his implementation is still more accurate and feature-rich than what's in MAME. In terms of compatibility, Z64 is comparable to major HLE plugins.
I think the emu scene will gradually move on to LLE.

[X-Fi6]

You were asking what is Z64 and who is Ziggy. So here's the link http://www.emutalk.net/showthread.php?t=40640.
Ziggy emulated RDP and RSP at a low level. He made especially nice progress with RDP, so his implementation is still more accurate and feature-rich than what's in MAME. In terms of compatibility, Z64 is comparable to major HLE plugins.
I think the emu scene will gradually move on to LLE.I disagree--Azimer's HLE Audio is the same, if not better, than other LLE plugins I've tried (like Jabo's etc).

I've never had any problems with it... So while in the future, graphics may be LLE, I still think HLE will be popular.

[Azimer]

I disagree--Azimer's HLE Audio is the same, if not better, than other LLE plugins I've tried (like Jabo's etc).

I've never had any problems with it... So while in the future, graphics may be LLE, I still think HLE will be popular.

I know a few major issues with my plugin at the moment.

1. It takes some opimization shortcuts that are not possible with LLE. As such, you lose accuracy as can be seen in Golden Eye 007 (Is fixed for the next release).

2. MusyX is still unemulated because it is a very demanding microcode. In some games that are not quite emulated well yet, the RSP recompiler takes up a good 30-40% of available CPU time for the emulator to do audio. This is one area I am currently focusing on but it's a lot of guess-work and reversing RSP.

3. My plugin need a lot more optimization before it's truly faster than the recompiled RSP. I am still waiting for my plugin to be 99% compatible with LLE before I do this. I am hoping that will be 1.0.. we are one what? .56?

In general LLE will overcome an HLE technique. The draw of HLE for me is that it brings a different challenge. Rather than emulate a system... I am emulating a system and making it faster and possibly enhanced through HLE. Though HLE, I can do something similar to texture packs by having audio sample replacement. Not really something that interests me but it was an easy example that is impossible using a *pure* LLE approach.

[bjz]

I'm here sometimes, I never say anything though. I like to be mysterious and unknown like a ninja. Besides TF2 has been taking a chunk of my time. :apollo:

[FlotsamX]

P64 is still a WIP... but after that, after all is accounted for, after the major problems in the games have been fixed, of COURSE we are going to focus on the Gamecube. That, or the N64DD. >.>

[jdsony]

I started with emulation back on my 486 with a gameboy emulator that was much too slow. That was probably 1995/6. After that it was NES, SNES, NEOGEO, N64, MAME etc etc. I've sorta come back to N64 emulation (and SNES). I just beat Conker after years of only playing half-way through. Now I'm working on Banjo Tooie which I've only gone half through in the past too. A lot of newer games are kinda boring me.

My 360 (which I hacked) died due to the RROD problem and I have no warranty. I've fixed it numerous times with some heatsink mounting mods but there is only so much you can do before the motherboard becomes useless. When it was working I didn't have much time available with the TV anyway so my game time was pretty low.

Playing PC games isn't great lately either because there are few good games coming out yet still the constant need to update hardware (though 2 year old hardware still supports the majority of stuff quite well). I also don't feel like using a mouse and keyboard lately since I use them so much at work and many PC games have crappy gamepad support (I hate figuring out how to assign buttons in a logical way).

Emulation is really a genius way to beat the system. There are HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of excellent games that I've never played or at least never played for more than 5 minutes. I have probably 5 computers that go back until 2001 that meet the requirements for most of these games. They all work on my laptop too so I can take them on the go and just plug in my wireless 360 controller. I still have a decent collection of real N64 games but I find the emulation beats the real thing in this case. Games like Jet Force Gemini (which was panned for having an awful frame rate) perform 100% better. Improved graphics are also a bonus and you really appreciate how solid the N64 hardware really was. Emulation in general has really shown how good Nintendo was with making the most out of the odd hardware they chose for systems. Ideally the N64 would have been better with a dedicated sound processor or this and that but some of the developers made the most out of what they had.

Thanks for the plugin too Azimer. It's been my plugin of choice through most of my N64 emulation experience.

[olivieryuyu]

Yeah Azimer works is georgous. I can t wait next release.

I noticed yesterday that Apollo was the only emu to emulate the Twisted Edge Snowboarding without a hack to fix the wrong gfx in game.

[Azimer]

Yeah Azimer works is georgous. I can t wait next release.

I noticed yesterday that Apollo was the only emu to emulate the Twisted Edge Snowboarding without a hack to fix the wrong gfx in game.

Thanks. I am still working albeit slowly. I want to get something out the door soon.

[bjz]

You better!

[Azimer]

You better!

What rock did you crawl out from under! OMG HI! :w00t: