Project64 1.6 runs on Linux.

[GarulfoLinux]

Hello everybody,

I wanted to try Project64 1.6 running with Wine and first, Project64 crashed. In fact, it was Jabo's Direct3D plugin that doesn't works. I downloaded glN64 plugin (for windows, so *.dll) and i tried again and there, my rom worked.

I didn't try with another graphic plugin but if you want to play with Project64, download and select glN64 plugin in Project64.

There, three screenshots showing Project64 running on Linux :

Project64's main window (http://garulfounix.exen.fr/project64_1.png)

Zelda64 OOT (http://garulfounix.exen.fr/project64_2.png)

Another screenshot of Zelda64 OOT (http://garulfounix.exen.fr/project64_3.png)

Enjoy! :linux:

[squall_leonhart]

you can't claim project64 works on linux unless all the parts of project64 are working in it.

if jabo's D3d8 isn't then you can hardly claim it does as the jabo plugins are the defaults.

Wine has some issues with some Dx8 functions. still.

[GarulfoLinux]

you can't claim project64 works on linux unless all the parts of project64 are working in it.

if jabo's D3d8 isn't then you can hardly claim it does as the jabo plugins are the defaults.

Wine has some issues with some Dx8 functions. still.

that doesn't impede using of Project64 on Linux. A plugin is a plugin, project64 is the core of program, without jabo's plugin you can play with another graphic plugin so, i can say that Project64 works on Linux(with glN64 plugin for example).

Your note is a little stupid..

[squall_leonhart]

by saying it doesn't impede it, your very wrong, it does, gln64 isn't the greatest of plugins for one, and doesn't have nearly the same built in opcode support as the Jabo Dx8 plugin, not to mention that
it doesn't render nearly the same amount of effects as jabo's. your best off using Glide Wonder Plus if it works, but even that does have some issues still, though all plugins do really.

theres also the fact that your not actually running it on linux, your running it on a self contained emulation of certain aspects of windows, running within linux, in a bastardly way it can be compared to DosBox, in terms of the general idea of it.

your topic name is misleading, you would've have been better off putting Project64 1.6 runs on Wine.

[GarulfoLinux]

hm, you barter ..

I specify in my topics that Project64 works with Wine. Then, everbody don't use the same graphic plugin (in this case, jabo's plugin).

[squall_leonhart]

theres also the possibility its a video card issue. did you try the 1.5.2 plugin?

[Toasty]

theres also the fact that your not actually running it on linux, your running it on a self contained emulation of certain aspects of windows, running within linux, in a bastardly way it can be compared to DosBox, in terms of the general idea of it.

your topic name is misleading, you would've have been better off putting Project64 1.6 runs on Wine.
Wine Is Not an Emulator. DoxBox is an x86 emulator with a DOS environment included in it. Wine is an implementation of the Windows API that was written for *nix (though it has also been ported to other platforms).

This difference is readily apparent, as programs run with Wine do not incur the performance penalties that typically come with running code through emulation. In fact, some programs even perform better with Wine than with the actual Windows API. Simply put, Wine is a compatibility layer and is a replacement for the Windows API, not an emulator that runs parts of Windows on Linux.

It's true that PJ64 won't run on 'naked' Linux, without Wine. But it also wouldn't work on Windows without the Windows API. The only difference is that Windows comes with the Windows API, while Wine is an optional component of Linux. Anyway, just wanted to clarify that. Peace. :flowers:

[squall_leonhart]

Emulation refers to the ability of a computer program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_program) or electronic device to imitate another program or device. Many printers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_printer), for example, are designed to emulate Hewlett-Packard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hewlett-Packard) LaserJet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaserJet) printers because so much software is written for HP printers. By emulating an HP printer, a printer can work with any software written for a real HP printer. Emulation "tricks" the software into believing that a device is really some other device.

therefore Wine is classified as an Emulator. wine is attempting to imitate windows, its an emulator of sorts.

the developers can say what they like, but its a clear cut emulator, saying otherwise is to defy the definition of emulation itself.

[cooliscool]

Squall, seriously, shut the fuck up. Every single post you make lets the world realize just how much of a stupid, know-it-all moron squall_leonhart really is. Toasty was entirely correct.

In other words, you're digging (or already have) yourself a very large grave, which I for one am ready for you to rest in.

[Trotterwatch]

Squall, seriously, shut the fuck up. Every single post you make lets the world realize just how much of a stupid, know-it-all moron squall_leonhart really is. Toasty was entirely correct.

In other words, you're digging (or already have) yourself a very large grave, which I for one am ready for you to rest in.

I could hug you for that post :D lol Spot on in every regard.

[Toasty]

The term emulation has a broad range of definitions, depending on the context in which you're speaking. Here, I usually interpret it as a program that imitates hardware, allowing code that was written for one hardware configuration to be run on another by creating a virtual computer in software. The last sentence in your definition sums it up.

Since the underlying hardware for a Linux system with Wine can be exactly the same as that of a system running Windows with its API, Wine wouldn't qualify as an emulator under that definition. If you define emulation differently that I do though, then perhaps Wine would be an emulator by that definition. For example, your definition apparently includes software that imitates software, which I suppose Wine would be. But then where do you draw the line? There's lots of software out there that does the same thing as other software. Are they all emulators? Is OpenOffice.org a Microsoft Works emulator?

I apologize if my post sparked an argument.

[GarulfoLinux]

I'm entirely agree with Toasty.

Squall, seriously, shut the fuck up. Every single post you make lets the world realize just how much of a stupid
I'm also entirely agree with cooliscool.

[cooliscool]

Toasty, it wasn't your fault the argument began.

As always, squall decides to reply to a very legitimate and potentially useful post with utterly irrelevant politics which seem to serve no other purpose than to either a) make squall_leonhart look "smart", or b) start an argument. Looks like a little bit of a and b in this case.

[_Zack_]

Toasty, it wasn't your fault the argument began.

As always, squall decides to reply to a very legitimate and potentially useful post with utterly irrelevant politics which seem to serve no other purpose than to either a) make squall_leonhart look "smart", or b) start an argument. Looks like a little bit of a and b in this case.

Well i agree with that, he used to be so placid too :plain: but now thinks he is the wikpedia on emulation =]

Btw Squall this is a quote from the wiki :


The name 'Wine' derives from the recursive acronym Wine Is Not an Emulator.

I suggest you read this and stop making a fool out of yourself : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WINE

Unless of course you think that the people that wrote it were morons.

Anyway on topic

Nice find that in runs in Linux, albeit using wine :)

[GarulfoLinux]

If Jabo & Zilmar are agree to release the sources codes of Project64 1.6, i'm there to port this version on Linux :) .

[_Zack_]

If Jabo & Zilmar are agree to release the sources codes of Project64 1.6, i'm there to port this version on Linux :) .

Why not port 1.4 first :D I am sure if you did that they would be more than willing to give you (maybe not the general public) the 1.6 source to port :)

[GarulfoLinux]

Why not port 1.4 first
Because it isn't "interesting" to port the version 1.4 of Project64. Mupen64 on Linux is enough good to be compare to Project64 1.4. If i must to do it, i prefer use my efforts for v1.6 instead of v1.4 . :)

[_Zack_]

Mupen64 on Linux is enough good to be compare to Project64 1.4. :)

I wouldn't go that far. Mupen64 on Linux is slow, has sound issues, very hard to achieve gamepad support, low compatibility, some big occasional lockups........ Whilst Project 64 1.4 does not (it has bugs don't get me wrong but its a miles ahead of mupen)

[nmn]

Wine is not an emulator. Not in the same definition as project64, or in any other definition. Why? Because wine does not emulate windows in any sense: It implements the Windows API, but not in a way like that of Windows itself implements the Windows API, so its not an emulator in the sense it does the same thing as the other app. Since it does not do any ACTUAL emulation, its not an emulator in the classic sense either. VMWare is an emulator in that sense, even though technically it does virtualization. So i don't think theres any way to state that Wines an emulator - it doesn't function the same as Windows or emulate Windows.

Mupen64 isn't really that bad, though it is not for the slower PCs. Project64 1.4 is a downgrade from it in many aspects. For one thing, Project64 has GUI and Jabo over Mupen64 - and some speed - but nothing else. Personally, I think Rice Video is better, and GUI is very unimportant considering Mupen64's is well enough to use.

Project64 1.6 and 1.7 run on Linux... I've seen both of them running before. Jabo is working somewhat well, Rice is working somewhat better. And Wine is not a platform, it is a set of libraries that implement most of the Windows API on top of the Unix API, So it really does "run" on Linux. The Project64 binaries are cycling on the CPU, making a few calls to Wine that make a few more calls to Linux.

So, In other words, Wine is not an emulator in any sense. Mupen64 is better than PJ 1.4 in most senses, except speed. And Project64 runs under Linux and will most likely to continue to do so.

The deal here is that for complete stability and speed with Project64, a native port is necessary, but that will never happen.

[_Zack_]

Personally, I think Rice Video is better.

Than Jabo's 3d8 ?

No way, Jabo's 3d8 has far less gfx issues in games (very very few) (especially the 1.7 version of it) than rice video.

If you try a good selection of games you will see that Jabos 3d8 outperforms Ricevideo.

Don't get me wrong its a great plugin but i think Jabos 3d8 has long since superseded rice video.

[squall_leonhart]

the definition of the word emulation predates what we are calling it today,

the real definition is as listed on wikipedia.

the definition used in the regards of pj64 is different to the original definition but loosely related.

cooliscool
STFU

Trotterwatch, your moderator status is given to you on the grounds you respect the rules as much as any other member here. you are not above the rules, and by supporting that post cooliscool made is saying you are supporting the breaking of the rules.

the fact is, the developers of Wine are WRONG, and are clearly basing thier definition of emulation on the incorrect definition of a program that emulates hardware or a system specification.

wine is running windows games on linux, therefore its an Emulator. you can argue it till your blue in the face, but your wrong, its emulation, clear cut, simple, end of story.

as far as i care, the moderation here is getting worse, especially with certain people not to mention names, believing they are above the rules.

its actually about time Martin did a review of moderators and their behaviour on here, as this place has definitely fallen from the list of forums that i have listed as great places to be.

i must say though, at least certain mods are willing to apologise when they are in the wrong, rather then full on support rule breakers.

[squall_leonhart]

Well i agree with that, he used to be so placid too :plain: but now thinks he is the wikpedia on emulation =]

Btw Squall this is a quote from the wiki :



I suggest you read this and stop making a fool out of yourself : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WINE

Unless of course you think that the people that wrote it were morons.

Anyway on topic

Nice find that in runs in Linux, albeit using wine :)

obviously they are morons then, you can argue the name all you like, but it allows you to use windows apps in linux, there fore its an emulator, you can't get more clear cut definition on emulation then that.

PJ64 is a hardware emulator
PCSX is a hardware emulator

Wine is a software emulator.

[_Zack_]

the fact is, the developers of Wine are WRONG,

Right, you know better then. You know more than the 4 + users here that have stated otherwise. More than wikpedia, more than the wine devs, more than the world......

All praise squall_leonhart, the man that knows everything about emulation and its category's. Everyone else is wrong.

So i give up, congrats squall :baaa:

[squall_leonhart]

yeah, i obviously do know better, do the developers of wine happen to be american because that would further enforce my point that they are morons,.. what with thier retardation of the english dictionary.

[Jabo]

I think everyone is arguing over semantics here. An emulator by definition basically tries to "emulate" a target abstract thing, or be as close to it as possible. This term is usually associated with hardware unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it.

If I was on the WINE team I would try to distance myself from the term emulator as much as possible as well as a result, when people hear emulator they think about things like interpreters and recompilers which WINE is the farthest thing from in the world. It's an implementation of win32 api on linux, it does no conventional "emulating" as we would use the term, it's more of a win32 wrapper.

But that being said, there is certain portions of WINE that are "emulating" the win32 api, things such as undocumented features or even bugs in the APIs. Things that aren't part of merely implementing a specific API for unix but simulating how it would work under windows -- which is the ultimate goal, they are trying to simulate or provide compatibility with the windows API's at the end of the day.

You can differentiate this from libc for example, which is a cross platform library, every platform has quirks in libc, there is not one "master" platform like there is in win32. WINE can't argue with Microsoft on the right way to implement win32 api calls, they have to follow them ("simulate", "emulate", whatever) them closely.

Again it's semantics, it depends on which definition of emulator you use, the dictionary terminology or the generally accepted "scene" definition which is what emutalk should probably be using.

Sooo who will get PJ running on Mac OSX? That's what I'm really interested in, if you get it running on HP-UX you have way too much time on your hands.

[squall_leonhart]

i was actually thinking to define it as a wrapper myself, but chose to define it as an emulator of sorts.

its all up to interpretation of the definition, thats all.

[_Zack_]

its all up to interpretation of the definition, thats all.

Thats the main reason i joined in this debate.

Like in your case you chose to define it as a emulator of sorts, in mine i decided it isn't.

I only disliked how you claimed all those people that said it wasn't a emulator were morons who knew nothing of what they were talking about.

Really in Wines case its unclassifiable. It kind of is a emulator but in many ways isn't. Everyones going to have there own take on it, so why don't we all just agree to disagree eh :evil:

[Trotterwatch]

Edited this post as I the person concerned has already seen it I'm sure, and well me posting sweary words probably isn't helpful or a good example.

Squall, I suggest you look back on some prior posts and try to acknowledge why some people have been a little perturbed at your attitude. I will freely admit my attitude of late hasn't been the best, but to be honest I don't have the patience at the moment to deal with people who are petulant and argumentative.

As it is I'm a rather friendly person most of the time and often help out people a lot via PM. Recently this has mostly concerned people complaining about you insulting them with absoloutely no provocation. Ergo you merely you disagreed with them on a matter so jumped in with insults from the get go.

[cooliscool]

yeah, i obviously do know better, do the developers of wine happen to be american because that would further enforce my point that they are morons,.. what with thier retardation of the english dictionary.

Wonderful job totally changing the subject, once again you derail a discussion to start arguments (and yeah, what you said totally proves that all Americans are morons.. conclusively!).

For fun, let's count the number of grammatical errors in your post.

1) Never capitalizing the first word in the sentence.
2) American is not capitalized.
3) No comma after "American".
4) Comma splice after the second "better".
5) What the hell is ",.." supposed to mean?
6) "Thier" - can be dismissed as a typo, fair enough.
7) "English" is not capitalized.

From other posts:

1) Using "your" in place of the contraction "you're" (you are).
2) Other issues with contractions, like #1.
3) Almost endless sentence structure problems.

How ironic, that all of the problems with your posts directly correlate to your knowledge of the English language.

Also, I absolutely do not understand how Trotterwatch as a moderator is not allowed to have opinions about members on a board which he helps run. Him forming logical opinions is part of him making decisions on how to help run it. Knowing Trotterwatch as a very level headed individual, I'd imagine his opinion about you is not ill-founded, nor did he base it on my post.

Now, I can't say this enough: please, for the love of your dignity, drop the know-it-all front; it's not working very well.

[Toasty]

DO NOT!

* Ask where to download ROMs, ISOs or BIOSes
* Provide direct links to ROMs, ISOs or BIOSes.
* Provide links to websites that link to ROMs, ISOs or BIOSes.
* Ask how to rip ISOs.
* Request the source code of an emulator.
* Post in any language other than English.
* Insult people, advertise or spam.
* Write in CAPITAL LETTERS.
* Double post.
* Ask to be a moderator.
* Pretend to be a moderator, or act as though you are a moderator.
* Ask to be a betatester.
* Ask when a new version of an emulator will be released.
* Ask for status updates of an emulator.
* Revive dead topics, if a thread is several months old there is no good reason to drag it back up.By dragging racism into the discussion, calling hard-working free software developers morons and publicly undermining the authority of the moderation here (even if it was harsher than the occasion called for) it's my opinion that the people you're criticizing aren't the only ones here who consider themselves above the rules. I'm not telling you to change - I'm not in a position to do that, but I honestly think you would find this a more pleasant place to be if you treated people more pleasantly.

Now, back to the discussion. You act as though there can only be one single definition behind a word. In the context of an emulation site such as this one, it typically means a program that emulates the hardware in a computer, which Wine certainly is not. Depending upon how broad you want your definition to be, just about anything (or even anyone) that does the same thing as something else qualifies as an emulator, but that's just not what most people are talking about here, or even in many more general computing forums.

As a side note, I don't think the people who wrote Wine are the same people who botched up the English dictionary - even if they are American. I have several American friends who also weren't responsible for the inconsistencies in the English language! Go figure! Now, in the interest of not turning myself into a hypocrite and overstepping my bounds, I'm not going to say anything further. Though I know I'm guilty of getting a little belligerent at times, my intention is not to argue with you - just to have a civil discussion.

[angrylion]

How unfriendly you are, squall_leonhart! Calling Wine team morons because they don't share your definition of emulation (which isn't strictly defined anywhere, anyway) is a senseless way to behave, indeed. Also as for your reasoning:

you can argue it till your blue in the face, but your wrong, its emulation, clear cut, simple, end of story.

There's a Russian adage about this kind of argumentation: "There are two opinions: one is mine, another is wrong".

[nmn]

Chill out, some of you guys are acting like retards.

The two most common definitions says Wine is not emulation, nuff said. Sure, the definition is how we use it today, but we can't just redefine things because people who don't know keep trying to change it. So, no, its not emulation. If you'd ever interpreted how the source code works, it would be very quickly visible there is no emulation work going on - just some UNIX code for Windows functions, and some rewritten windows libraries.

Quit acting like retarded babies and get over the word games, really.

[Allnatural]

sorry to spoil the fun...

/closed