Skies in PD and GE in Glide64!

[Legend]

That's right!! The brilliant coder Gonetz has emulated the skies perfectly for GE and PD in his HLE plugin Glide64!! It's in beta now and no telling when the public release is going to be but when it does come out, this is gonna be massive. Not too many games left for this plugin to perfect. :cheers:

Look at the screens at the bottom of the page: http://www.emuxhaven.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5499&page=29

EDIT: I can't believe I misspelled Glide64 in the title. I have'nt found a way to edit it. Oh well.

[Iconoclast]

ZOMG the sky!! :) WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO spam, this is going to be HUGE! Perfect plugin!!!Skies are fun, but booting games and loading graphics that other plugins don't is even funner. :P So while you're busy attracting attention over real plugin news, just keep in mind that Rice's already loads the sky for like everything once configured properly.

There's more to emulation than just the sky, unless you're just trying to hypnotize/**** everyone here with some ad that the other plugins don't show off. While Jabo's busy privately fixing things like the MK64 tunnel header, you're busy making even more public notices about things like the sky taking away end user sight from all the other issues in the other games. :D "Woo, GL is unplayable, but just look at the sky in PD!"
Not too many games left for this plugin to perfect.Maybe if you stare at the sky all day. The plugin is about as perfect as the other two major plugins; you're just tired of realizing it.

[Toasty]

I'm always happy to see progress in any plugin. Keep up the good work Gonetz. :)

[Legend]

Well, I'm not gonna respond like I was before I read your PM but I will say this.
This IS a big achievement, albeit a small thing. How many times have people asked about the sky in those 2 games? Now we have a plugin that does the sky perfect and with perfect speed AND emulates the rest of the game perfect as well. I don't know, I think this is neat and I'm just glad that N64 emulation is still so active!

As far as I've heard, Rice's still does'nt do the sky completely accurately, but I may be wrong. And not even Jabo has accomplished this feat yet. Ziggy's done a good job with this but obviously the game is slow with the LLE plugin.

Just because other plugins can boot some titles that Glide64 can't doesn't mean those game are even playable. If you look at the games Glide64 does boot, Gonetz has really tried to perfect them and emulate everything properly. Just browse through that screenshot section to see that. So many games and almost every one is near perfect. He IS running out of bootable games to perfect.

But I DO NOT want to argue about this. Let's just have our own opinions on Glide64.

[Clements]

Ya, Rice's Video does not correctly emulate the sky texture in Goldeneye - it was just the first plugin to display the texture (albeit incorrectly). Glide64 is the first to get it correct. This particular texture has pretty much eluded authors of plugins since the beginning, so this is news. Even the sea shows quite a bit of progress that I don't recall seeing in any other plugin.

[olivieryuyu]

Well, I'm not gonna respond like I was before I read your PM but I will say this.
This IS a big achievement, albeit a small thing. How many times have people asked about the sky in those 2 games? Now we have a plugin that does the sky perfect and with perfect speed AND emulates the rest of the game perfect as well. I don't know, I think this is neat and I'm just glad that N64 emulation is still so active!

As far as I've heard, Rice's still does'nt do the sky completely accurately, but I may be wrong. And not even Jabo has accomplished this feat yet. Ziggy's done a good job with this but obviously the game is slow with the LLE plugin.

Just because other plugins can boot some titles that Glide64 can't doesn't mean those game are even playable. If you look at the games Glide64 does boot, Gonetz has really tried to perfect them and emulate everything properly. Just browse through that screenshot section to see that. So many games and almost every one is near perfect. He IS running out of bootable games to perfect.

But I DO NOT want to argue about this. Let's just have our own opinions on Glide64.

You are right Legend. Glide64 is a extremely compatible plugin. And yes Rice only emulated partially the sky with a hack.

I don t want to argue as well to know which is the best plugin. Each plugin deserves our respect for the work that his author accomplish to create and improve it.

:-)

BTW Legend Mario Party 3 gfx issues are gone with current beta ;-)

[Iconoclast]

So Rice's emulates it, just not correctly? I want to know what's incorrect about it. Changes in sky emulation since I set that Enable Texture LOD option for Rice's, should've fixed the sky, but tell me if I'm wrong; never took the time to compare it to the cartridge version of the game.
Well, I'm not gonna respond like I was before I read your PM but I will say this.
This IS a big achievement, albeit a small thing. How many times have people asked about the sky in those 2 games? Now we have a plugin that does the sky perfect and with perfect speed AND emulates the rest of the game perfect as well. I don't know, I think this is neat and I'm just glad that N64 emulation is still so active!

As far as I've heard, Rice's still does'nt do the sky completely accurately, but I may be wrong. And not even Jabo has accomplished this feat yet. Ziggy's done a good job with this but obviously the game is slow with the LLE plugin.

Just because other plugins can boot some titles that Glide64 can't doesn't mean those game are even playable. If you look at the games Glide64 does boot, Gonetz has really tried to perfect them and emulate everything properly. Just browse through that screenshot section to see that. So many games and almost every one is near perfect. He IS running out of bootable games to perfect.

But I DO NOT want to argue about this. Let's just have our own opinions on Glide64.Don't play the peace fool with me; you're not as glad as the scene being active as making one plugin superior to the others. If you don't want to argue, why are you doing it? You have argued in this post by contradicting what I said, so I will not (and should not, lest you look like you're talking to yourself) delete my red-minded post up there and I will argue in turn, now that I can actually view a thread after cussing in it. McAfee is the undead, thanks to Vista.

If Glide64 is almost perfect, tell me, why have you not sparked a huge system of corrections with BigHead's Configuration List Online? You seem to accept a configuration list that lists Rice's Video Plugin AND Jabo's Direct3D (seperately) more than the number of times Glide64 shows up on there as the best plugin. Just quit being arrogant and count them already. I apologize for my hostility, not that it makes a difference to someone closed-minded. Opinions are prejudice; facts are knowledge, so I suggest you learn them.

There are tons of games on that list that have not been perfected on Glide64. How can I even list them? Give me a list of games that have been perfected; that'll be interesting. I know there are definitely games out there that have been perfected on Glide64, but there are fewer than you think, and likewise compared to such lists for other plugins.

You seem to consider things like, "higher texture quality", and, more frame buffer emulation, blue skies, and not even look at playability, except when you consider quality and playability the same thing, and the other missing textures and slower speeds in say Banjo-Tooie and Gauntlet Legends. You want to see the jigsaw effect in Jiggywiggy's challenges done perfectly? Use glN64, not Glide64, and you see HWFBE done at 60 VI/s, jigsaw pieces textured perfectly. Every other plugin fails at this area of the game. And Gauntlet Legends? Where's the GUI, huh? Talk about "Playable" for those two games, that compat list, and I can list more games with issues with Glide64 not occuring in Rice's or Jabo's, but I won't in this thread. You should've replied to me in private.

I could even post that huge post I had typed up for that mistaken post of yours in that why Project64 is the best thread right when that sheep had closed it rashly, but I won't, because...I'm a nice guy, somewhere, and I've decided I just don't have time to deal with animal instincts ex. presumptuousness.

I'm glad there are people who understand the N64, too, who choose it as their favorite console, and that the scene is persistent, though not very determined, so we're both happy. Now, assuming you were telling the truth when you said you don't want to argue, /ignore.

[mudlord]

Oh, I came by for a brief moment before my major IT exams today, and I see this....:angry:

Okay....from the top:


Skies are fun, but booting games and loading graphics that other plugins don't is even funner. So while you're busy attracting attention over real plugin news, just keep in mind that Rice's already loads the sky for like everything once configured properly.

There's more to emulation than just the sky, unless you're just trying to hypnotize/**** everyone here with some ad that the other plugins don't show off. While Jabo's busy privately fixing things like the MK64 tunnel header, you're busy making even more public notices about things like the sky taking away end user sight from all the other issues in the other games. "Woo, GL is unplayable, but just look at the sky in PD!"

Part of emulation is discovering new things. You might not be aware, but that sky is a microcode issue. Gonetz has made a important discovery here, no matter how small. Its actions like his that should be applauded, and not debated over. You are not thinking of the ramifications of this. AFAIK, Gonetz has been kind in giving out the code. With this, other authors can improve thier plugins too, since they can see how things work and make thier own solutions to thier own plugin's problems.



This IS a big achievement, albeit a small thing. How many times have people asked about the sky in those 2 games? Now we have a plugin that does the sky perfect and with perfect speed AND emulates the rest of the game perfect as well. I don't know, I think this is neat and I'm just glad that N64 emulation is still so active!

As far as I've heard, Rice's still does'nt do the sky completely accurately, but I may be wrong. And not even Jabo has accomplished this feat yet. Ziggy's done a good job with this but obviously the game is slow with the LLE plugin.


Indeed, any discovery, no matter how small, is important. This issue has been a major issue in the past, and I am very happy it has been put to bed how it exactly works. I'm sure other plugin authors might feel the same way, so Gonetz deserves a hell of a lot of kudos for his discoveries in N64 HLE emulation.


You seem to consider things like, "higher texture quality", and, more frame buffer emulation, blue skies, and not even look at playability, except when you consider quality and playability the same thing, and the other missing textures and slower speeds in say Banjo-Tooie and Gauntlet Legends. You want to see the jigsaw effect in Jiggywiggy's challenges done perfectly? Use glN64, not Glide64, and you see HWFBE done at 60 VI/s, jigsaw pieces textured perfectly. Every other plugin fails at this area of the game. And Gauntlet Legends? Where's the GUI, huh? Talk about "Playable" for those two games, that compat list, and I can list more games with issues with Glide64 not occuring in Rice's or Jabo's, but I won't in this thread. You should've replied to me in private.


Isnt emulation accuracy a part of playability? I do not want to side with the MAME crowd here too much, but accuracy is a important part of playability. Generally, the more accurate emulation is, the better the gameplay experience, and the more playable the game is. However, sometimes accuracy comes at a cost and sometimes its not true that accuracy in all cases = slow execution speed.

Case in point: Kega Fusion.


thats all I'm gonna say.
Ciao.

[Clements]

As mudlord said, this is a microcode issue that Rice worked around with a hack (imperfectly). Glide64 emulates the effect correctly, and no other currently available plugin does. Enable LOD Texture does not fix the effect. Screenshots of Rice (Left) and Glide64 (Right) for comparison:

[Legend]

Nobody waste any time arguing with Icono. He's talks about others being close-minded, but he's more guilty of that than anybody. He dislikes Glide64 so much that he comes in here, guns blazing, to disparage this terrific plugin when all I'm trying to do is share what Gonetz just accomplished. Icono, the way you speak about Glide64 is really shocking. It's like you've NEVER used it.



BTW Legend Mario Party 3 gfx issues are gone with current beta ;-)

I know. :) All 3 Mario Parites are perfect now. That's right Icono, I said PERFECT!!!! :naughty:

[Iconoclast]

I did not mention 'accuracy' in that comparison. Not only is there a difference between playability and quality, there is a difference between texture quality and accuracy. In Gauntlets, it's like, "Look at those rich quality high-res textures," and the missing GUI XD. Point is, whatever term you use for it, just as sky loading might be a microcode involvement, so is booting other ROM files.

I like discovering, I didn't know it was microcode-related (which explains why Rice's always loads them), and I still do it by day as I keep testing new games. It's not that I don't respect a plugin author's doing what other author's have not done, it's just my case of hostility and legend's sounding like some hyperstimulated kid finding ways to cut off other Plugin-related threads, jumping up and down on his keyboard keys and mouse buttons, stash and back about how awesome the sky looks.

Edit @Clements: Well, I don'g recognize that level. (I saw Gonetz's screenshots, but still, GS cheats I guess eh.)

Strange, because, over here, on the Dam level, the sky looks like this (and you're right LOD not only did I not turn on screws up the geometry, doesn't do anything to the sky):

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/GE.png

@Legend: Save your breath, dude, you're on my ignore list. LLE is to Jabo as loading the sky is to Gonetz; all the authors work hard, so accept that Glide64 sucks when you advertise it. Leave it to experts if you want people to see exactly why it can actually compete with the other plugins: It's a whole new method of emulating graphics, in terms of HLE, but still falls to Rice's and Jabo's features, just like vice versa. Accept it or not, don't care, just die, man, you suck. Silly rodent, emulation's for rabbits. :D

THE END (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/YouSaidIt.jpg)

[Legend]

You're a joke Icono. There's no need to start bashing me for this or my opinions toward PJ64 and Glide64. Just chill out and let people say nice things about Glide64 without jumping to compare it to your plugin of choice, Rice's. Maybe someday, you'll come to appreciate Glide64...though you will have to give it a chance first.

Besides, I thought we had finally come to an understanding of one another and decided to be civil. I guess I was wrong, given you have really gone after me in this thread. Oh well, no matter. You no longer get to me, actually I find you rather amusing. You get ever so upset for no reason whatsoever.

EDIT: Wow I just read your edit.


@Legend: Save your breath, dude, you're on my ignore list. LLE is to Jabo as loading the sky is to Gonetz; all the authors work hard, so accept that Glide64 sucks when you advertise it. Leave it to experts if you want people to see exactly why it can actually compete with the other plugins: It's a whole new method of emulating graphics, in terms of HLE, but still falls to Rice's and Jabo's features, just like vice versa. Accept it or not, don't care, just die, man, you suck. Silly rodent, emulation's for rabbits. :D


You want me dead, I suck?!! You're really kinda sick Icono and you not making yourself look good to others here I don't think.

And I can't believe what you're saying about Glide64 and Gonetz. Wow! You really could'nt make yourself look more stupid and ignorant with those comments. I don't even know what to say. Wow!

[Clements]

Level in screenshot was Frigate. Rice's Video does not emulate the sky correctly in Dam either, although the glitch is less obvious. The texture shrinks and contorts when you look up and down, and this does not happen on the real N64.

[Iconoclast]

All this entertainment sure is fun to ignore. :)

So anyway, thank you mudlord and Clements for remaining civil. I gotta try Glide64 out some more; the sky...no plugin does it correctly then? Perhaps none of the graphics plugins will ever win the war as to which is best, and I prefer it that way. :) Teamwork, that's all that's stopping them. Not to say there isn't a Glide64 team, a Rice's Video development contributions crew, and a Project64 beta forum, but emulation isn't a contest, despite some arrogant people who try to make it otherwise, it's a game. :)

I gotta take this plugin out for some more spins.

Edit: OH, Frigate! Still looks hard to recall in that viewpoint, but...yeah. So yeah, I was lazy and only tested the damn level.

[zaba_3]

Funny how most peoples here got problems with you Icono

[Legend]

You must be mad Icono to say that I was not civil and arrogant in this thread. You have said nothing but terrible things about me and Glide64 this entire time and for absolutely no reason. You made yoursels look foolish. And then you end by saying that you need to spend more time with Glide64, my god, you make yourself look so ignorant. Yeah, about you do spend some time with this plugin before you bash the hell out of it and it's author. Christ!!

[Legend]

Funny how most peoples here got problems with you Icono

Have you read this thread dude!! No one had problems until Icono went on the offensive full force and start saying unfair things constantly! Open your eyes!

[Iconoclast]

Well, Zaba, after those two posts of his, whatever it was that he was trying to say, it looks like you're singled out. :D

You all hate doctors; I listen to you people for problems you notice in me, we all should be doctors, instead of eurymetheuses...pah, Greek.

[PsyMan]

Can you please quit with this attitude and stay on-topic? I will try to not be offended by the last sentence of Icono here either (the one about Greeks).

This is supposed to be a Progress Report Thread and not a reason to start arguing so (I repeat) try to stay on-topic. OK?

Good to see Glide64 progressing so nicely. Even Mischief Makers has almost perfect GFX on some levels that previously had messed textures, let alone the rest fixes. Impressive indeed. Can't wait until next version is finally out. :)

[Iconoclast]

Whoa no no, the "pah, Greek" interjective was more of a spelling thing, cause I'm not sure I spelled it right, not like that; Greeks are cool. Just don't ban me. Also yeah, they're cool. :ph34r: *tries to be on-topic at the same time*

Also, don't know why Gonetz didn't get a screenshot of this, but they fixed the sky in Sin and Punishment, too, which appears fine in Rice's - at first glance - till you see a bunch of flickering triangles zipping by in a second.

Edit: Clements, XD I think the reason I couldn't recognize it is because the water looks like grass..

[PsyMan]

Bah! The "s" I had on "Greeks" on my previous post was a typo. :getlost:
The bastard who invented that "all Greek to me" stuff should be shot. What's Greek compared to Latin or Japanese? Anyway, I'm not in ban mode at the moment so you should be safe... for now :P

I wonder if Ziggy's LLE plugin helped Gonetz HLE the sky on these games. It should be great help on similar cases...

[Iconoclast]

:naughty: I escaped. :devil:
...Listening to GoldenEye music with that somewhat obnoxious smiley is just...hilarious. The matching rhythms with half of the songs is just menacing!!

I'm guessing not since LLE works around detecting game microcodes to boot their graphics, and mudlord said the sky was microcode-related.

[Rice]

The sky in GE and PD was rendered by an special ucode. I managed to load the sky texture in my plugin, but didn't successfully decode all the necessary information in the ucode to draw the sky box. Rendering of sky in my plugin was not correct, was just better than not drawing a blur color rectangle.

Congratulation to Gonetz to figure out the ucode.

[Gonetz]

Hi all.

First of all, I have a request to all “civil” people – please stop to argue with Iconoclast. It obvious, that he does not understand the very basics of emulation at whole and N64 emulation in particular. Moreover, he even does not want to understand it. Because of it, he does not understand things, which he talks about. Each time when he uses technical terms, it’s obvious, that he does not understand, what they mean and how things work, it’s like a label on a black box for him. It’s ok for common emu-gamer, as you don’t need to have special knowledge to play with emulators. But when such people trying to argue with specialists – it’s annoying. For example he talks about “booting games”. It’s clear, that he does not understand, how HLE and LLE work – the corner stone of N64 emulation. Iconoclast – trying to boot a game with unsupported microcode into HLE plugin is almost the same as load a GDROM or BRD into your dvd-drive. HLE plugin is designed to work with several particular microcodes as common dvd-drive works with particular media types, and any attempts to load unsupported thing will lead to crash. There is a good article about emulation basics, written by Jabo. Unfortunately, I lost link to it. Try to find it, read and understand before talking about something more complex then plugins configuration.

PsyMan – you’re right, KI gold and GE/PD fixes are done with help of Ziggy's z64. In fact, emulation of these things required a bit of LLE.

Rice – I guessed how it works when I saw sources of z64. Second argument of rdphalf commands is a data for low-level triangle command, implemented in z64. Thus, this achievement is mostly Ziggy’s and Ville Linde merit :)

[zaba_3]

Have you read this thread dude!! No one had problems until Icono went on the offensive full force and start saying unfair things constantly! Open your eyes!

Chill man!I just wanted to point out that you arent first one to get in fight with Icono, he likes to argue a lot :P

anyways Great to see new progress in N64 emulation, its Best console ever!

[Knuckles]

Ya, Rice's Video does not correctly emulate the sky texture in Goldeneye - it was just the first plugin to display the texture (albeit incorrectly)


Actually, you're wrong. I recall there was 1 version of Jabo's plugin that was showing it, then it was removed the version after. I have the plugin in here, lemme just find the good version and post a screenshot..


to Gonetz : Really nice job man! I see the water in Frigate is still funky (green water!!) but you did an amazing job! I still have my Voodoo 5 ready in another PC just to use Gilde64 :)

Iconoclast : Will you stop with that shit? It's really annoying and you just make no sence. If you're not around to post decent, positive and intelligent commments, don't post.

EDIT: Found it, Jabo Direct3D6 1.20b (see attachement)

[Iconoclast]

Yes, I do like to argue, and I believe that's a good thing. While some people don't like being corrected/feel that the persistent arguer is dementedly against losing, there is a purpose. Imagine a world without arguing. There is little difference between arguing and debating if you think about it. This world would be full of passiveness and a lack of constructive skepticism for work.
Hi all.

First of all, I have a request to all “civil” people – please stop to argue with Iconoclast. It obvious, that he does not understand the very basics of emulation at whole and N64 emulation in particular. Moreover, he even does not want to understand it. Because of it, he does not understand things, which he talks about. Each time when he uses technical terms, it’s obvious, that he does not understand, what they mean and how things work, it’s like a label on a black box for him. It’s ok for common emu-gamer, as you don’t need to have special knowledge to play with emulators. But when such people trying to argue with specialists – it’s annoying. For example he talks about “booting games”. It’s clear, that he does not understand, how HLE and LLE work – the corner stone of N64 emulation. Iconoclast – trying to boot a game with unsupported microcode into HLE plugin is almost the same as load a GDROM or BRD into your dvd-drive. HLE plugin is designed to work with several particular microcodes as common dvd-drive works with particular media types, and any attempts to load unsupported thing will lead to crash. There is a good article about emulation basics, written by Jabo. Unfortunately, I lost link to it. Try to find it, read and understand before talking about something more complex then plugins configuration.
Okay, Gonetz, I'm sorry if you felt like I was bashing your plugin, but these accusations do not move me.

First, there's one important detail you're missing: I did not argue with any specialists. Me and legend have high testing experience, but that does not automatically make us specialists. I was not arguing with him about emulation and how it works, which seems to be your point of confusion, but the number of games Rice's plugin has won over Glide64. Unless you were lying to me before when you said you don't play with other plugins so much, I suggest you rethink your point of intolerance of what I have done in this thread.

Clements was a specialist; that I can tell. He knows about emulation hardware and some software details, but what you gotta see, is, I never argued with him. At least not in this thread, and, if I did, it wasn't to do with emulation science.

Second, as I have said in this thread, I am interested in learning emulation. Do you really think I so euphorically consider myself superior to plugin authors in emulation knowledge just because I live off of the use of your software?

EDIT: OH, I see. Perhaps I argued with mudlord then, out of defense instead of aggression, but all I said in that last sentence was, both loading the sky and loading a ROM file involves microcode detection. If I am wrong, please tell me.

[olivieryuyu]

Actually, you're wrong. I recall there was 1 version of Jabo's plugin that was showing it, then it was removed the version after. I have the plugin in here, lemme just find the good version and post a screenshot..


to Gonetz : Really nice job man! I see the water in Frigate is still funky (green water!!) but you did an amazing job! I still have my Voodoo 5 ready in another PC just to use Gilde64 :)

Iconoclast : Will you stop with that shit? It's really annoying and you just make no sence. If you're not around to post decent, positive and intelligent commments, don't post.

EDIT: Found it, Jabo Direct3D6 1.20b (see attachement)

Hehe i didn t know that :-)

Thanks

[PsyMan]

Before arguing, someone should construct a base to support the reasons he argues for and you seriously fail on that part Icono.

The base of each one of your arguments can be described as a fortress of sand that collapses with the first wave. This is not the problem though.
The problem is that even after your "fortress" collapses you keep "fighting" while ignoring the fact that it's gone. You keep "fighting" for a lost cause. Everyone realizes that except you. Whoever tried to explain that to you ended being ignored, flamed or accused to be wrong.
Legend realized that on this particular thread and tried to end the argument... The result was you bashing him of course.

Arguments can lead to positive results when the bases used by the ones who participate are strong.
Arguments can lead to positive results even when someone's bases are not so strong as long as he knows when to accept that he is wrong.
But an argument with someone who never accepts being corrected will never end and will never lead to something positive.

No one is perfect. Everyone makes mistakes. You should accept that you are not perfect either Icono... you can't last long on a community while keeping the same attitude. The time will eventually come when everyone will just have enough of you and then it'll be the time to put an end to this never ending loop.

[Iconoclast]

Yep, most of that post just about sums it up. :)

But there are two things wrong:

You seem to be automatically presuming that my argument was fake. While the motivation was hatred, not only does your cause in this post seem to be the same (hatred of stubbornness, being arrogant), just as your argument here is true, so was mine. The information was not false; those were just two games I demonstrated major Glide issues with. Again, this is not an argument about emulation science, but of plugin compatibility with a number games. You trying to tell me you know more about which games are compatible with which plugins just because I seem like a schizophrenic?
Legend did not try to end the argument. Show me what post tried to end it, because he seemed pretty damn persistent to me. Look at all these posts on this page, you call that an end?? Edit: *sigh*, the previous pageEh...hm...first page..

[PsyMan]

Legend did not try to end the argument. Show me what post tried to end it, because he seemed pretty damn persistent to me.

Here's a part of one of his posts:

But I DO NOT want to argue about this. Let's just have our own opinions on Glide64.

How could he be successful after you bashed him? He was really pissed after your reply to his post (who wouldn't) but he eventually gave up. You're the one who keeps going on.

Funny that you agree with me but you still fail to behave yourself...

[olivieryuyu]

I did not mention 'accuracy' in that comparison. Not only is there a difference between playability and quality, there is a difference between texture quality and accuracy. In Gauntlets, it's like, "Look at those rich quality high-res textures," and the missing GUI XD. Point is, whatever term you use for it, just as sky loading might be a microcode involvement, so is booting other ROM files.

I like discovering, I didn't know it was microcode-related (which explains why Rice's always loads them), and I still do it by day as I keep testing new games. It's not that I don't respect a plugin author's doing what other author's have not done, it's just my case of hostility and legend's sounding like some hyperstimulated kid finding ways to cut off other Plugin-related threads, jumping up and down on his keyboard keys and mouse buttons, stash and back about how awesome the sky looks.

Edit @Clements: Well, I don'g recognize that level. (I saw Gonetz's screenshots, but still, GS cheats I guess eh.)

Strange, because, over here, on the Dam level, the sky looks like this (and you're right LOD not only did I not turn on screws up the geometry, doesn't do anything to the sky):

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/GE.png

@Legend: Save your breath, dude, you're on my ignore list. LLE is to Jabo as loading the sky is to Gonetz; all the authors work hard, so accept that Glide64 sucks when you advertise it. Leave it to experts if you want people to see exactly why it can actually compete with the other plugins: It's a whole new method of emulating graphics, in terms of HLE, but still falls to Rice's and Jabo's features, just like vice versa. Accept it or not, don't care, just die, man, you suck. Silly rodent, emulation's for rabbits. :D

THE END (http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j112/rswedlo/Nintendo%2064%20Screenshots/YouSaidIt.jpg)

I request the ban of Iconoclast. If you click on THE END, you will see a picture with a nice comment: F... OFF. Insult should not be tolerated in this forum.

[Iconoclast]

Since I saw there's no cussword filtering on this site, I assumed cussing isn't against the rules, as is on quite some amount of sites.

But, I'll be honest: I'm getting tired of defending myself from accusations. Since everyone's so pessimistic about some form of bitter humor, the only reason that's left for me to be a member here is the support threads that newbies start and my N64 documentation project. This can continue elsewhere: BigHead got loads of attention for his config list on like almost every other site, whereas this forum is full of people who don't comment unless a thread is against the rules, and finding reasons to ban. I'd like to see the positiveness in that. You want to, ban me, don't have a problem with it, less sites for me to keep frequently checking posts on.
Here's a part of one of his posts:


How could he be successful after you bashed him? He was really pissed after your reply to that (who wouldn't) but he eventually gave up. You're the one who keeps going on.

Funny that you agree with me but you still fail to behave yourself...He gave up at the end of the second thread, that's right. Since I was so sick of past issues with him sticking to my brain, I matched my stubborness with him to even us out.

My misbehavior with legend was derived, again, from hatred. I don't hate you; I respect your current approach. Part of your previous post did annoy me somewhat, though.

When I bashed him, he's just all, you called me WHAT? Gee, you're really kinda sick Icono and you smell bah silly trolling bizarre. He didn't take offense to that, as you can plainly see in his response to my edit at the top of the second page. What he DID take offense to is, if I may indirect quote, "constantly attacking Glide64 full force throughout the entire thread." He didn't care what I said about him, unless the guy thinks he IS Glide64 or something. I was bitter with him, not Glide64, which I criticized, not attacked constantly.

Also keep in mind this: Of course I didn't give up, but neither did he. I stopped replying directly to him. While you could easily tell I read his posts (even though he was on my ignore list), I didn't speak to him directly. He kept confronting me with what I made appear like ignoring him on that page.

[GE Master]

I just wanted to say what an absolutely fantastically entertaining thread this is. Wow, this is just excellent. A couple uppercuts and left hooks make for a good read. Good points spead around all the eye gouging. Hey, where the heck is Jabo, we need him in this thread to complete the circle of joy!!

[Iconoclast]

Now I am confused..

Yes, let's lure Jabo in this thread...then the mods will be all over my ass in terms of banning..

[Knuckles]

then the mods will be all over my ass in terms of banning..

it's already done.

Now let's keep on the MAIN topic (sky), no more talk about him, thanks.

[Legend]

Who knew the purpose of this thread would be 2-fold? :naughty:

I am also happy that this was a little good press for the not-so-well-known Glide64. My sig. has had a lot of hits since the begining of this thread. So thanks to Icono for helping spread the word of Glide64. Gonetz has been none-stop with improvements to the plugin and we'll all see soon how awesome Glide64 can be.

And yes Jabo has been quite busy as well and promising an update to beta testers in about a week where PD should be fully emulated (minus the sky maybe).

So we're about to have TWO plugins that emulate Perfect Dark almost, dare I say it, PERFECTLY. Sorry. So the choice will be up to the gamer which one works best for their system. If only N64 online play was just better!:(

All of our classics are getting better everyday!!

LONG LIVE N64!!!!:n64:

[mudlord]

And yes Jabo has been quite busy as well and promising an update to beta testers in about a week where PD should be fully emulated (minus the sky maybe).

Who knows, the sky was very close to being emulated right in the beta......He might have other fixes in this bag. We shall see....


I am also happy that this was a little good press for the not-so-well-known Glide64. My sig. has had a lot of hits since the begining of this thread. So thanks to Icono for helping spread the word of Glide64. Gonetz has been none-stop with improvements to the plugin and we'll all see soon how awesome Glide64 can be.

Indeed, and the wrapper is now quite mature as well, thanks to ziggy's improvements. :). The next release will be great, I think.

[FloW3184]

Is there a download for the beta atm?
I really cant wait to have it on my hdd! ^^

[mudlord]

I'm aware that the Glide64 betas are private, and I think Gonetz has all the stuff he needs from me (I'm sure he has my new gltest.exe app), and I done my work on the wrapper, so has ziggy [and the wrapper seems close to perfect now]). So, I guess mainly we have to wait until Gonetz is satisfied for a release.

[Legend]

...and I done my work on the wrapper, so has ziggy [and the wrapper seems close to perfect now]).

Sad, but I knew that was coming. Maybe Hacks will touch it up a little more.

Not to get off-topic but I still experience (obviously) slowdowns with PD and FB effects. IR makes FPS drop to like 10 and night vision drops to about 20-25 (out of 30 of course). Is there a way to get this to a steady 30? Would getting another 6800 and going SLI do the trick or a faster CPU? Or is the wrapper just not capable to converting all the information fast enough? So if I had a 9ghz. processor and 2 8800's SLI, should the PD FB effects be running at 30FPS.

[mudlord]

...and I done my work on the wrapper, so has ziggy [and the wrapper seems close to perfect now]).


Sad, but I knew that was coming. Maybe Hacks will touch it up a little more.

Maybe, there might be some final touchups that can be done to it. Tho, I guess either me or ziggy could still pitch in a helping hand when that time comes.


I still experience (obviously) slowdowns with PD and FB effects. IR makes FPS drop to like 10 and night vision drops to about 20-25 (out of 30 of course). Is there a way to get this to a steady 30? Would getting another 6800 and going SLI do the trick or a faster CPU? Or is the wrapper just not capable to converting all the information fast enough? So if I had a 9ghz. processor and 2 8800's SLI, should the PD FB effects be running at 30FPS.

Good question. In the compatibility listing, it lists the speed of Perfect Dark as "Slow", so I don't know whether a real Voodoo 5 gets around the same speeds. There could be room for improvement in optimizing further some routines, but then I guess theres only a certain amount of optimization you can really do to something before that effort being wasted. I find that using 1964 really helps with the playability of this game with Glide64, tho (the framebuffer effects seem to work rather well on my new Radeon in conjunction with using framebuffer objects, in conjunction with Glide64. I havent done any benchmarking with this wrapper tho, so I cant really say how big a difference modern hardware can make on rendering performance.

[Gonetz]

Performance drops with Voodoo5 too. I don't know where is the bottleneck in this case. But mudlord right, using 1964 really helps

[squall_leonhart]

not to cause riot, but Jabo Dx8 now has working sky in 1.7

alas in working that out, he has come across the same green ocean bug, but im sure he'll sort out the opcode for that as well when he gets to it.

Gonetz, check pms, Lens of truth, is still not working properly for some people, and im not sure why, as according to Mudlords test program my system should support it.

[Gonetz]

People must use "WonderPlus" version for for Zelda OOT, 'cos Lens of truth was broken in Wonder++.

[Legend]

The skies are not fixed for PD on Jabo's. His missing that and lighting halos. The rest of the game works the same between the plugins now.

For GE, they are tied now though. :happy:

The lens of truth is fixed for the next release, so as I've been saying, stay tuned...

[squall_leonhart]

People must use "WonderPlus" version for for Zelda OOT, 'cos Lens of truth was broken in Wonder++.

ah, that explains it then, i saw next to wonder+ that it was supported and expected ++ to still do so, i even asked mudlord and he couldn't tell me :P.

Legend, D3D is a little more complicated and bitchy about render to texture and HWFBE effects, then 3dfx via a well developed glide wrapper, and Jabo's is a single man job :P where as Glide64 has a bit of a team going by the looks of things now :P.

not to forget to mention, that not only is Jabo working on his d3d plugin, but also his nes emulator :P.

[Legend]

I wasn't dogging Jabo, just clarifying that currently Glide64 is the only one that emulates the sky in PD (which has nothing to do with the HWFB). So currently, if you have a good computer, when Glide64 0.9 comes out, that would be the best plugin for the game - since it will emulate the game almost perfectly. But if you have a mediocre or a slow computer (or simply using an AGP card) then Jabo's is going to be best for you. But I'm sure he'll get the sky working before not too long.

Also, I was just stating that if your playing GE, either plugin will be perfect for you. I do love Glide64 but I wasn't trying to put anyone else down.

And only Gonetz would trully know if its easier to code for the HWFB on his plugin using the GlideAPI and then make sure the wrapper can emulate that feature properly versus using DirectX. It seems like Jabo would have a less to worry about. When its comes to implementing new FB effects (as with PD lately) it doesn't take Jabo too long. He's a sharp guy, I think its (as you eluded to) a lack of time more than anything. But I gotta believe the difficulty level is about the same - they both have battles to fight - just different ones.

[squall_leonhart]

i understand that the sky isn't an HWFBE, but other effects are, which are somewhat broken depending on the rom... for instance the Floyd hud in JFG, and the rain...,

lol, and legend chill man, no need to defend the plugin, i use it myself to compare how some effects should be, im not attacking it in anyway ^^

Opengl, according to mudlord, is alot easier to implement framebuffer effects lol, D3D is being a total cow to him....

[Gonetz]

OpenGL with its awkward frame buffer objects is alot easier to use than D3D? Then Jabo is really in trouble. Why API developers do such a simple thing so complex? May be there is a high-level library, which can simplify using of this stuff?

[squall_leonhart]

it all depends on what your used to coding with, some people find opengl easier to work with, others d3d, it just depends on thier personal preferences.

lol, jabo confused mudlord with how hes managed to maintain AA while using HWFBE's :P

but i think mudlord might have sorted that out now ;)

[PsyMan]

Not really. Each API has its pros and cons. It all depends on what features the developer wants to implement, the time he needs to implement them and the target hardware.
Of course the developer might ignore all the above and use a specific API just to get more familiar with it and test his skills.

API and HW/SW limitations lead to problems that can't be sorted easily (or not at all).
In that case the developer either hacks things up (this usually breaks stuff), switches API (and gains features while losing others) or just uses SW rendering (with the known impacts this has).
The *other* option is to just say something like "can't be done" or "not possible" and ignore any relative requests. :P

[mudlord]

OpenGL with its awkward frame buffer objects is alot easier to use than D3D? Then Jabo is really in trouble. Why API developers do such a simple thing so complex? May be there is a high-level library, which can simplify using of this stuff?

Honestly, I find FBOs much more pleasant than render targets in D3D :P Less messing around with render target texture formats, which is one of the biggest pains. Like I found out unfortunately. On top of that, there is restrictions on how multisampling on render targets can occur, when with OGL we can use a simple ext_fbo_multisample extension to do AA on framebuffers.

[squall_leonhart]

have you started reworking the ricevideo plugin with that render target stuff you found?

[mudlord]

Hold your horses, haven't installed VS yet :P (ran into a issue with the size of my primary OS partition, so I had to reformat and resize).

[Kreationz]

First, sorry for riviving such an old thread.
Second, is it correct in Rice now?
Third, if not is the source to Glide64 available.

Finally a note: While Rice is based on Daedalus I do also want to look at other solutions to the same problem. I'm currently working on the sky in DX64 for GE, but I know it will affect PD as well (They use the same uCode command to render it.)

[h4tred]

Sorry, I am under very strict orders not to release Glide64 Napalm's source code, yet.

[Kreationz]

No, problem, if it gets to a point you can release the source just send me a PM.

[[bradsh]]

Glide64 successfully emulates more of Perfect Dark's effects than any other plugin I have ever seen. The framebuffer stuff in Napalm is jaw dropping. Kudos to anyone involved.

[squall_leonhart]

Jabo D3D 1.7 shouldn't be that far off Glide64, i'll test it and post screenies later.

[Gonetz]

;423375']Glide64 successfully emulates more of Perfect Dark's effects than any other plugin I have ever seen.
I think, all effects are emulated in single mode. The only problem is multiplayer.

[death--droid]

If only someone like Gonetz could fix the framebuffer emulation in Aritotle Video :(
I don't have the experience to.

[squall_leonhart]

learn, giving up won't get you anywhere.

[Gonetz]

Frame buffer emulation is not the thing, which can be "fixed". General things, like textures load and vertices calculations implemented more-less the same in all plugins, because there is known input data in known format and processing algorithm is also known – almost no freedom here. If something does not work, it is a bug, which can be found and fixed. As for fb emulation – there are variety of approaches, how to do it, each with its own pros and cons. If something does not work, it is not necessary a bug – it can be limitation of selected approach.
I don’t know, how Rice implemented fb emulation – never learned it and never will do.

[Kreationz]

Well Salvy finally got the skies right for us. Here's hoping we can do as well on the FB.

BTW, I have commit privileges on Rice and we'll be using it for a base for our FB. If we improve it I'll back-port the improvements. Secondarily, we fixed some other problems even Rice/1964Video has so I may back-port them soon.