Project64 is not perfect

zilmar: this has been moved from the logo thread.

Fourth, it's true: Project64 has the highest reputation and identity, but is mistaken to be the best emulator for the console, when, in terms of emulation, is actually one of the worst, as a core emulator. The only reason you all see it as "standing out" is because of its default graphics plugin, not its truthfully yet only relatively bad core. When 1.7 comes out, however, since its got LLE graphics, high level audio, very nice changes in graphics, sound and RSP emulation, that is the time where Project64 will become the best, except for a few things that I predict to be true:

1. It will stil have core slowdowns with games such as Gauntlet Legends and Top Gear Overdrive. In fact, Mupen64 is the only emulator that does not have this problem.
2. It will not be as fast as 1964 but a little more durable as a core, with a much higher CPU usage, however.
3. It, along with Mupen64, does not have NetPlay and will probably never have NetPlay executed as well as on 1964 for its speed and online stability.
4. It will not have some of Nemu64's unique features, including but not limited to N64 movie files, sturdy but slow NetPlay, exporting VRML via graphics plugin.

To conclude, the other three decent emulators have some unique advantages of their own, and, chances are, Project64 will probably beat them overall, but never make them obsolete.

cooliscool said:

Yeah, seriously, you're full of shit. PJ64's core is almost rock solid.

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Why don't you start justifying nonsense instead of posting it?

Project64's core has DMA crashes with Donkey Kong 64, does not emulate RSP for TWINE 007 like some emulators (ex. Mupen64), has a conflict with Rice's Video Plugin in GoldenEye 007, is the slowest core emulator with several games (ex. Gauntlet Legends, Top Gear Overdrive, Vigilante 8, etc.), is even worse than Nemu64 at NetPlay on Project64k, has core slowdowns in several areas within Mario Party, has audio-video core sync issues with Banjo-Kazooie when the speed limiter is off, crashes with Nemu64's video plugin unlike the other three emulators, doesn't let you assign certain plugins to certain games and, worst of all, mislead users like you who fail to judge an emulator. I could go on, naming even more problems with Project64's core, but no. I'll save my breath. I'll expect you to understand, though it is the emulator with the most effort put into it, it is only the "best" N64 emulator for people who are beginners to N64 emulation. People who know little to nothing about changing plugins. It comes with the best default graphics plugin, spreading and levering compatibility over several games, but its default graphics plugin will never succeed the others for any one game in particular, even.

squall_leonhart said:

and yet, i have

NO dma crashes with project64 in donkey kong 64

no core slowdowns in Banjo Kazooie or Tooie

could care less about other plugins that you have to mess with to get working.

the only times i've seen any issues with project64 is when i'm

a. running it on a crap computer.
b. using cheats, usually.. too many of them.
c. using save states, causing crap code to build up over time.
d. actual Driver bugs.
e. am using a plugin like Glide64, which i've found is extremely unstable, as Plugins which have to rely on a wrapper usually are.

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That's because you haven't played Donkey Kong 64 long enough. It only happens quite infrequently at later stages like Fungi Forest. Clements knows what I'm talking about.

I didn't say you get core slowdowns with Banjo-Kazooie, and I wasn't even TALKING about Banjo-Tooie, which, if you have certain GS cheats enabled for, screw the game up down to 0.01 FPS and below, at least on Project64. Banjo-Kazooie, however, when ran on Nemu64, is fixed and can have its speed limiter removed for a higher speed than that of Project64's.

Also, you overestimate the status of N64 emulation. You will find that, regardless of the graphics plugin you use or even core emulator, some issues will still persist. Challenge me, and I'll show you. Right now, I'm only here to say, it has issues and a lack of features it has that other emulators don't.

Okay, Gent, my specs were already filled in, but either way, I've tested a hundred and more games on four N64 emulators, and I know what I'm talking about. This isn't to blame on my hardware. I'm not trying to bomb Project64 here; I'm only continuing a topic that was challenged by someone. It is still a damn good emulator, but it's not the best/outcasts the other emulators, contrary to what many of the users here think who just like to pick some random emulator and call it the best. Maybe I could've just PMed them, so sorry for the off-topicness, but the debate also goes well in the thread it started in. As for the warnings, ban me if you must. I've got something to say about emulators, and I believe emutalk is the place to say it.

I think you can delete my posts, anyway, so, I guess, if nobody wants to challenge me, that seems fair. Again, sorry about the chaos I stirred in this thread for a minute.

protofz said:

To the dude who started the case of the performance of the PJ64, I also have to tell you to EITHER STICK TO THE TOPIC ABOUT REDESIGN OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE FORUM, RIGHT NOW!!!!! :angry:

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Mind your own damn business. You think you own this forum or something?

Project64's core, which means its performance as an emulator in disregard to the plugins used with it, is not the worst. I was so overly annoyed at Internet misinformation, I started a little bit of my own.

More like, Project64's core can be considered obsolete compared to the other three core emulators (1964, Mupen64 and Nemu64) combined. Now, before you scoff at how stupid this sounds, for me to do a 1 vs. 3 comparison, I do this for two reasons:

1. Because, despite some exceptions on professional sites like this, it is common for the average Project64 fan to believe that all other N64 emulators are obsolete with Project64 around. Vice versa is actually true.
2. Also because, while Project64 VS. the other three emulators in terms of core emulation proves to be obsolete as a core in terms of doing things the other emulators can't, no other 1 VS. three emulator combination can be said the same with. For example, Mupen64 VS. the other three emulators used altogether. Mupen64 does fix some emulation issues that the other three don't, therefore, this concept cannot be applied here.

However, Project64 is still the best N64 emulator for beginner users, those who don't feel like switching between multiple emulators, those who don't feel like constantly changing plugins (as it comes with gfx and sound plugins that have nicely spread compatibility over almost all games), and generally users who do not aim for perfect emulation, but nice emulator features, such as unique GameShark cheats, experimental debugging, etc.. What I think is, if Project64 focuses on its strongpoints, these areas possibly, and drops concern for its weakpoints, which, even if fixed, may 'lever' out the strongpoints (if you know what I mean -- ex. NetPlay), it will become more of a masterpiece than the other emulators have. Uniqueness is the primary goal, since there are so many other N64 emulators out there. LLE graphics, changing plugins during emulation, these are both fine examples.

To summarize, I only come here to say, as its compatibility is more 'widespread' than that of all other emulators (except Mupen64, which supports almost everything the other cores do, but lacks features like GS cheats and NetPlay) it may be the best emulator for beginner users, but it is NOT the best emulator in general. Perhaps, on the official release of 1.7, it may be once all is summed up and averaged out.

do you remember when were were noobs Iconoclast

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Many changes, many changes.... One day we're just crusing around the forums like everybody else and then BOOM we start ranting about 64 emulation suggestions and political complaints!

Rice said:

1964 is the fastest. PJ64 is overall the best. Mupen64 is the slowest, but maybe the most compatible one because it interprets instead of dynamic compiling the CPU code.

Many slow down problems are not CPU core related, but video plugin problems.

Zilmar, SI interrupt delay needs to be paid attention to solve the delay problems with a few games caused by CPU core.

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I still think Nemu64's the slowest, as it consumes much more RAM. I can't test this for sure, though, since I can't figure out how to remove Mupen64's speed limiter, if there is even a way. I remember doing it before in the settings, somehow....

And, yes, 1964 is generally the fastest (next to Corn, but that's another story, there), but speed can change depending upon the game. Take Top Gear Overdrive as an example. This is one out of several games that Mupen64 emulates faster, only for a special reason: The core.

That's what I tried, but where is this "audio sync" option? It's not the audio plugin; I'm using Azimer's HLE, here. Force Old School Audio Sync is off, but you know, now that I just tried zilmar's No Sound plugin, the speed limiter is successfully removed on Mupen64....

So, results of emulator speed comparison when using the following plugins for all emulators:

• Graphics: Jabo's Direct3D 8 1.6
• Audio: No Sound
• Input: N64 VirtualPad
• RSP: Project64's RSP

Project64 1.6: 240 to 300 FPS
1964 0.9.9: 300 to 375 FPS
Mupen64: 111 to 116 FPS

All of these speed comparisons are only approximate and are tested in the File Select menu screen of Super Mario 64, with five minutes of FPS range observation patience, without movement of the hand or my mouse cursor. System specification details are in my profile.

Damn...I overestimated Mupen64's core speed, there, but it still fixes core slowdown issues that the other emulators don't. Meaning, on the sufficient system for N64 emulation, speed should not be a reason not to use it with its core issue fixes unless you're really aiming for speed for some odd reason.

But what about Nemu64? Nemu64 is difficult to test, because the plugins it forces you to use cannot be used on any other emulator, except you can get the graphics plugin going on the other emulators. I will try comparing Mupen64, the slowest of the above three emulators, to Nemu64 using the following plugins:

• Graphics: Nemu64 Graphics
• Sound: No Sound (Mupen64), Lac's Audio (Nemu64, with Dummy Mode enabled to disable sound emulation)
• Input: N64 VirtualPad (Mupen64), Nemu64 Input (Nemu64)
• RSP: Project64's RSP (Mupen64), No RSP (Nemu64)

Results:

Mupen64: 105 to 113 FPS (109 FPS AVG)
Nemu64: 95 to 125 FPS (110 FPS AVG)

...Great. So, now what? Nemu64's faster by 1 FPS?