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LLE Video with 1.7

Waddi

New member
I was just wondering. If LLE emulation is used for video with 1.7, does that mean that we will have to use the resolution set by the game i.e. very low compared to today’s games and LCD displays? I do however like the idea that we will at last be working with LLE so games will eventually be near perfect.

Version 1.6 is so great, I can’t wait for version 1.7 even if I do have to wait. In fact sod it, I will probably donate to the project
 

Agozer

16-bit Corpse | Moderator
LLE in PJ64 1.7 is an option. LLE is very slow, so it's only natural that HLE is still used.
 

Allnatural

New member
Moderator
Waddi said:
I was just wondering. If LLE emulation is used for video with 1.7, does that mean that we will have to use the resolution set by the game i.e. very low compared to today’s games and LCD displays?
Not necessarily. How the video is emulated (LLE vs HLE) is seperate from how the video is rasterized
 

Smiff

Emutalk Member
Allnatural is correct, the resolution can still be set by the video plugin. however, image quality is generally worse with LLE due to several things i can't go into here. LLE is mainly useful for debugging (improving the HLE) and running games where the microcode has not been reversed (like Rogue Squadron).
 
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Waddi

Waddi

New member
The reason why LLE is interesting to me, is because I want as accurate as emulation as possible. At the moment, the graphics in particular aren’t perfect. Don’t get me wrong, I like the fact you can increase the resolution and I’m not knocking the hours of hard work that goes into emulating and indeed Project64 and all associated plug-ins. That’s why I am going to donate to 1.7.

When you look at things like the HUD in Mario 64 using the Jabo plug-in, the graphics are blurry and don’t render cleanly. I actually like the crispness of the pixels and the only plug-in that looks like it should i.e. a real n64 is Direct64, but that only works on a few games. The same goes for Mario Kart 64 and most other games that have a HUD or indeed a 2D menu of some sort.

Like I said, I don’t want to sound like I’m bashing what’s available at the moment, I’m not, but what I’m after is emulation as close to the real thing as possible.

Regards,

Chris
 

Smiff

Emutalk Member
the filtering should be correct in jabo's HLE, as long as you don't use his force filtering option. for a few games it isn't and we can't entirely work out why. for Mario64 HUD, look at the PAL version, it looks fine. the US version game is requesting filtering..why, we've no idea. jabo doesn't want to hack something different to what the game is asking. there is also a problem with sprite edges which I need to have another look at. again, we believe the solution to this is fixing the HLE, not using the LLE. LLE has bigger issues which aren't likely solvable for a long time.
 
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Waddi

Waddi

New member
Hi Smiff,

I did try the PAL version and yes filtering is not used. I have attached a composite of screen shots to show you what I am seeing in Mario 64 and Mario Kart 64. I have checked the plug-in and force filtering is disabled.

So am I right in thinking that the ROM is requesting filtering and so this is actually how the game should be? It’s just that Direct64 doesn’t apply filtering to the US version of Marion 64 and so I assumed that this was correct, am I wrong?

Also, on Mario 64 there is a black line around the HUD. Is this the issue with sprite edges you mentioned?

Regards,

Chris
 

Poobah

New member
I also get those black smudges around the edges of the sprites in Super Mario 64. Is this supposed to be normal? The sprites on the HUD look nice and crisp on Glide64 and Direct64.
 

Agozer

16-bit Corpse | Moderator
That's because Jabo's "Always use texture filter" filters sprites also, resulting in those black smudges around edges.
 
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Waddi

Waddi

New member
But I haven't enabled 'Always use texture filter' so shouldn't they look pixelated like they do in Direct64?

Chris
 

Agozer

16-bit Corpse | Moderator
They looks pixelated to me when I disable the texture filter. Besides, Jabo's plugin uses Direct3D while Glide64 uses OpenGL to render graphics.
 

Smiff

Emutalk Member
you are right about that screen in MKart, yet in other places Jabo looks less filtered
edit: ah, this is probably because Orkin is attempting to simulate overscan? stretching looks bad.

i think your video card is forcing filtering. check your driver options (see Mario64 (E) Jabo pic)
 
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Waddi

Waddi

New member
Hi Smiff,

Mario 64 (E) does indeed look less filtered, but I run the US versions because they run at the correct speed and not slowed down like the PAL versions. Just to quickly recap:

Mario 64 U - Jabo filtered
Mario 64 U - Direct64 not filtered
Mario 64 E - Jabo not filtered
Mario 64 E - Direct64 not filtered
Mario Kart 64 U/E character selection screen - Jabo filtered
Mario Kart 64 U/E character selection screen - Direct64 not filtered

How different is the video plug-in for version 1.7 over 1.6 and at the moment (WIP) how stable is it? I will be donating to the project after next week, because my system is going offline, but I will be donating, promise.

Regards,

Chris
 
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Waddi

Waddi

New member
Hi Smiff,

Just wanted to let you know that if I set the full screen resolution down to 320 x 240 then no filtering is applied. I am currently running at 640 x 480 and some things are filtered and others aren’t. I will be donating to the project within the next fews weeks.

Regards,

Chris
 

Smiff

Emutalk Member
Waddi said:
Hi Smiff,

Just wanted to let you know that if I set the full screen resolution down to 320 x 240 then no filtering is applied. I am currently running at 640 x 480 and some things are filtered and others aren’t. I will be donating to the project within the next fews weeks.

Regards,

Chris

that's a really good observation, but i can't recreate it
- you mean jabo's video yes?
- which games?
- can you post shot please

the filtering looks same to me at 320x240, though harder to see of course
 
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Waddi

Waddi

New member
Here is a screen shot of Mario Kart 64 using Jabo's plugin. I have scaled up the 320 x 240 images in Photoshop so you can see what I mean. Filtering has been applied to the menus with 640 x 480 but not 320 x 240. Let me know what you think.

Chris
 
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Waddi

Waddi

New member
Thinking about it, the game probably ran on the N64 hardware at 320 x 240 (correct me if I’m wrong), so when I run it at that resolution full screen, the menu looks pixelated because of the low resolution, but there is filtering. I assume that the menus graphics were designed at 320 x 240.

When I run at 640 x 480, the menu is doubled in size by Project64 (doubling the number of pixels horizontally and vertically) and then filtering is applied so that’s why it looks softer. Is this correct?

What I’m trying to get at is, if it was possible to run the game on the N64 hardware at 640 x 480, would graphical menu’s like those in Mario Kart 64 look exactly as they do on Project64?

Chris
 
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Waddi

Waddi

New member
So the menus are correct when running at 640 x 480 and they should look softer than at 320 x 240? Why is that?

Chris
 

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