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[Ultima226]

ok, i was playing SA2 in dark story in wire frame, i was robotnik when he firsts start the pyramid lvl and i thought maybe i'll be able to see something so i took it off and i DID, i played a nice chunk like it was normal but when i went near an enclosed space or near a wall where the camera is goin through tat wall i get the same graphics problem so its not the graphics, ITS THE CAMERA!!!!!!!!!!, now only if i were a coder or modder or anyone who could patch this i'd do it, since its a camera problem i don't think theres a problekm with the emu its the camera, try it for yourself, the pyramid lvl with robotnik:bouncy:

[General Plot]

Wow, and I thought the emulator's authors had thought of everything, that is, until the idea that the crash may be due to the camera and not the graphics. Oh wait, as it turns out, it is the graphics that causes the crash. Please understand one thing: many games have the gfx/text bug. THPS2 is a good example, and there is really no "camera" to control in that game. It is a graphics bug, no matter how you may interpret it. These guys are geniuses, please understand that they have considered even the most obvious. Also, 'cameras" have never been an issue in emulators, and I doubt it will start here. :P

[Ultima226]

But i gotta be on to something, it worked a qauarter of the level until i got to a enclosed space or area thats gotta be worth something? have u ever heard of someone using it perfectly for more than five minutes?

[General Plot]

The bug is graphics related, not "camera" related. The authors have already stated that it is an iterpretation of the graphics that causes this. Do some research further back in the forums, and you can see this for yourself. If you still disagree, then perhaps you can diagnose and debug the error, but I'm willing to guess that you don't know the first thing about how this emu even begins to work, so please leave it to the professionals.;)

[GCFreak]

thats not nice generalplot, maybe he might be able to prove to us that its the camera. can u show us sum screenies?

[General Plot]

thats not nice generalplot, maybe he might be able to prove to us that its the camera. can u show us sum screenies?
It may not be nice, but it is true. I was nicer with my first post telling him that this was a graphics bug confirmed by the original developers of Chankast, and I defy anyone to tell them that they don't know what they are talking about. Camera controls and points of view aren't the problem, the graphcis being interpreted incorrectly is. Perhaps you'd be best to also do a little research. I've been following this project for quite some time (even before I registered with emutalk) and I have seen the bug reports posted.

[Ultima226]

I'm not trying to say it isn't jus thought i'd jus point that out, and i'll get those pics later

[General Plot]

I'm not trying to say it isn't jus thought i'd jus point that out, and i'll get those pics later
This points out nothing and pictures will prove nothing. Bug reporting is only helpful if the origin of the bug is known and reported. But if you wish to keep yourself in the dark, then I guess you would rather not know this.

[Talikar]

This points out nothing and pictures will prove nothing. Bug reporting is only helpful if the origin of the bug is known and reported. But if you wish to keep yourself in the dark, then I guess you would rather not know this.

Holy crap and who made you god? No one, so please stop being more of a troll than a knowledgeable poster. I would however like to mention that as a CAMERA moves back and fourth it does move the graphics and works with them, so it's still a graphics problem.

To the topic author: However, that's a nice trick you figured out, thanks a lot for it. :)

I might try it some time. By the way, it could maybe be a memory problem with too many pixels on the screen or with large images... I would like to mention to the semi-troller one thing:
A program requires a lot of typing, a lot of coding. The devs could miss something, it isn't unheard of. However, we all like what they've done with the emulator, and they really don't need to work their butts off to get it done, they can take their time so missing things is alright. :)

[General Plot]

Holy crap and who made you god? No one, so please stop being more of a troll than a knowledgeable poster. I would however like to mention that as a CAMERA moves back and fourth it does move the graphics and works with them, so it's still a graphics problem.
Let me tell you something, lil n00b, and I'll be nice the first time. The gfx may be rotated/zoomed and such by camera control, but that does not mean the camera is graphics related. The camera is controlled by the game pad plugin, the graphics are controlled by the graphics plugin. In each case these plugins are embedded in the emulator. But a bug in the graphics plugin does NOT mean the gamepad plugin has a bug. They are not the same thing. It may APPEAR that the camera would cause errors, but it is in fact the graphics only. Take a look at Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 if you don't think I'm right. There's no camera to control in that game whatsoever, and yet, the text graphics bug shows up. Next time, do your homework before you come in here talking like that, when you don't even understand the basic concept of an emulator.

[Talikar]

Wow I never said anything about a gamepad did I? I believe I also mentioned the camera is in essence part of the graphics, so, in essense it could be graphics related, but it could also be memory related. I never said anything about game pad, try re-reading my post before you claim I'm a noob and continue your trolls.

Or maybe I wasn't clear so I'll say again:
It could be a memory or a camera related problem, camera is related to graphics since it controls which GRAPHICS you look at/see at the time. So lil noob 12 year old (sorry have to resort to your level) try getting the broom out of your behind for 5 seconds.

Besides, if you re-read my first part of my post you'd notice I semi-agreed with you so what's your problem?

[General Plot]

I'm not going to sit here and argue with you. I have an idea: get on irc, and ask one of the devs about this theory of yours. I can assure you that they will laugh at you. The camera may manipulate what is being shown on screen, but in no way does it effect what the gfx plugin is doing, other than to change perspective, which is not going to cause a bug. The misinterpreted graphics solely in themselves are a bug. Plain and simple.

[Talikar]

Again I say I semi-agreed with you, but if you don't want to argue with "yourself" that's uh fine with everyone on the board, thanks. oO

Anyway, it could also be a memory problem like I stated, but I have never said anything about a gamepad dude...

All I'm saying is that we should keep an open-mind about things without resorting to provokative posts so I apologize for me provokotive posting manner in this topic towards you.

However, I would like to indicate that I could be wrong, you could be wrong, the devs could be wrong, or we all can be wrong from a certain perspective, what makes you the "judge" of everything? Not trying to provoke, just asking.

[General Plot]

I know you didn't say anything about a game pad. I DID. Camera is controlled and manipulated by game pad manager, not graphics, how many times must I tell people this? The camera is separate from the graphics. What you are saying in essence would be the same as saying that if you move your character on screen and the game crashed, it is the controller that caused the crash, when in fact it was the graphics that caused the crash.
Edit: many emulators have to deal with similar type bugs. PCSX2 is quite the same. Many PS2 games use camera controls, but yet it's things like the IOP and VU (both graphics processors) being misinterpreted that cause all the crashes. I talk to the devs quite often, and they know where the bugs are (well most of them anyways :P) and they can fix one, but cause bugs in other places. Fix one thing, break ten things). I trust that the Chankast devs are aware of the "problem areas" but just haven't figured out how to fix it without breaking something else.

[Talikar]

The controller controls the graphics pitch, yes, but the graphics are still displayed VIA the camera, so the camera would have to be "in essence" related to the graphics in some way or form. You can't have the camera without the graphics, of course you could display a black background or something but you can't have it working without the graphics. Well you could, but it wouldn't be of much use. I never said it WAS the graphics, I said it was linked to the graphics aka "in essence" which I mean by "in part".

The controller moves the interface, which, is the camera, etc. It's a well in the real copy would be an external source that sends the information through the cord (unless it's wireless) which manipulates the inner code to tell it what to do. Sorry if this doesn't make sense, I got a little confused when I was imagining going inside a Dreamcast. :P

Anyway, all I'm saying is that it manipulates the graphics and in this "essence" case, it could be a piece of graphics that comes up that crashes it, maybe a certain pixel for all we know. We can't really tell what's actually up unless we were the devs and knew how they put it together. Need I say that all programs are programmed differently?

[General Plot]

Need I say that the devs have already stated they know where the problem is, they just don't know how to fix it without breaking something else?

[Talikar]

That is true, but, there could be other bugs elsewhere as well that cause a similar or the same problem which they haven't identified yet as well.

You are right though, they have mentioned that.

[General Plot]

And regardless of whether the bug appears when a character is moved, or a camera is manipulated, it still comes down to a misinterpretation of the graphics. Solely graphics bugs. The idea that a camera control could fix/cause the problem is quite absurd really, and that was what I was trying to inform the original user who posted this thread. But after 4+ times of explaining the concept, it can be unnerving.

[Talikar]

Ok ok you win, it's solely a graphics bug. For arguments sake though, are you sure it's not a memory bug that could be causing it as well?

[General Plot]

According to the authors, system memory is working as it should. The gfx memory is having some miswrites I believe it was. Don't quote me on that though, it's been a while since I checked the reports. This makes sense, since there is almost virtually no slowdown on most games, and yet graphics are missing and the likes. Just a note: I never said it wasn't a memory bug.;)
I'd also like to point out that I do what I can to help the community, and I encourage others to do so as well. I know the person that started this thread had good intentions, he just didn't understand what the problem was. Anyways, that aside, it seems like there are some rather nice improvements coming our way. Check the news thread for mor info.

[MikeEx]

I agree on the game having a bad camera! :evil:

[Talikar]

According to the authors, system memory is working as it should. The gfx memory is having some miswrites I believe it was. Don't quote me on that though, it's been a while since I checked the reports. This makes sense, since there is almost virtually no slowdown on most games, and yet graphics are missing and the likes. Just a note: I never said it wasn't a memory bug.;)

Weird. Sorry, I thought you did, my mistake. :P
Ok I admit you're right, I'm wrong, graphics bug alone. Sorry for the trouble

[General Plot]

I agree on the game having a bad camera! :evil:
Lolz, yeah, the game has a bad camera angle, which even on the original DC bugs me to death :P.
By the way, Tailkar, I'm not trying to play the right/wrong game, I just want to pass on some things I've learned over time.;)

[Talikar]

Doesn't change the fact that you are right about it though :P.

I was just speaking from a 3rd party person, I haven't played the game itself, but I might actually have it somewhere in a box. Is the camera really that bad even on the regular DC?

[General Plot]

It's horrible. you rotate the camera to just where you want it, then as soon as you move: Whoosh! It spins back to where it was before you adjusted it. Makes for some terrorizing jumping sometimes. Still a good game, if they could have just made the camera nicer.:P

[Talikar]

Ouch, maybe someone could spend a ridiculous amount of time editing an ISO of it to give a better camera... :P I have enough problems playing the style of game with a good camera angle myself.

[General Plot]

All you need to do it is one of these. I'd love to have one myself. It's called the HKT-01. The Dreamcast development kit. They go on ebay for around $1,000 from time to time.

[Talikar]

$1000 Dollars for something for the dreamcast!? I got the dreamcast itself for 20 dollars (canadian) with 2 controllers and cords along with a VMU. I wouldn't pay 50x extra for an accessory/addon. :/

Nevermind that looks more like a revamped version of the DC...:huh:

[General Plot]

It's for the actual development of games. Imagine making your own games. Of course, you'd still need blank GD-R's which can be hard to find anymore.
It's a PC crossed with some Dreamcast hardware. It can play games (notice the controller sockets) as well as manipulate them. It's the Dreamcast diehard's dream come true.:P

[Talikar]

It's for the actual development of games. Imagine making your own games. Of course, you'd still need blank GD-R's which can be hard to find anymore.

You can make games with that (I never thought game-wise)? The DC's graphics are really good too, that would be fun.. ok I take it back, if I get the chance I'll get it on the spot (if I can afford it).:happy:

[General Plot]

Here's a site with more info on the dev kit. Enjoy.:D http://assembler.roarvgm.com/Dreamcast_Developer_Unit/dreamcast_developer_unit.html

[ssma2005]

I know I don't frequent this forum often, but I just thought I'd pop by for a visit and I found this thread. Let me just say that "general know it all" was very blunt and rude in his response to the thread starter, not to mention the person he was referring to as "noob".
Let me retort by saying get over yourself, you have no right to pass judgement and put people down. So what you have some information from the authors regarding this issue, the authors may have an idea about the problem, but they may also be wrong (not saying they are wrong, for all I know they are right and maybe you're right), they are not god and make mistakes, and you are certainly not god either.
To end this post I will finish by saying, fine you have your theory and possibly the information to back it up, but just because someone has a different view to yours doesn't give you the right to judge or put them down (you could have handled your response(s) alot more politely).
I am new to the Dreamcast emulation scene, I don't know shit from clay to be quite honest (call me a noob). Infact I don't know much about the core of emulation, how emulators are developed etc. I just know how to configure and run emulators (despite the fact I have been following the emulation scene for close to 5 years) and that's all I need to know, infact I don't want to know how they are developed, I just appreciate the Author's work. I have done some light programming and I know how frustrating it can be, you have to have great patience. Anyhow sorry for my rambling, no offence is intended I just don't appreciate how this thread was handled.

[Talikar]

Here's a site with more info on the dev kit. Enjoy.:D http://assembler.roarvgm.com/Dreamcast_Developer_Unit/dreamcast_developer_unit.html
Thanks for the site, sorry didn't reply earlier had to go do something in real life. The Development Kit looks like it would do extremely well, and yes, it's deffinately less expensive than the PS2 thing (as it mentioned).

To ssma2005: You're a n00b :P (Just kidding, sorry).

[General Plot]

Hey, no sweat Talikar, enjoy the site. There's more on Assembler's website. Some really odd stuff. O.o
Now, to deal with the obvious.:evil:
ssma, you seem to have quite a bit to say, but admit to having no knowledge of the issue that was being discussed.
for all I know they are right and maybe you're right
Please, have some faith in the people who have gotten your DC games to go this far already.
you are certainly not god either
I never claimed I was. Next......
just because someone has a different view to yours doesn't give you the right to judge or put them down
I never passed judgement nor insulted anyone. When someone who does not understand what they are talking about receives an explanation from someone who does, why does he argue? It's like taking your car to a mechanic, he tells you what's wrong, and then you argue with him and tell him he's wrong, and you're right. This irks the shit out of me. One of my pet peeves. Anyways, moving on........
I don't know shit from clay to be quite honest (call me a noob). Infact I don't know much about the core of emulation, how emulators are developed etc. I just know how to configure and run emulators (despite the fact I have been following the emulation scene for close to 5 years) and that's all I need to know, infact I don't want to know how they are developed
That first statement is quite obvious. And if you had argued with me about some magical theory of the newly discovered "camera bug", I'd laugh at you too. At least you admit you don't know shit, the original poster wouldn't admit it.;) And finally.......
no offence is intended
How else would you expect me to take this? Given what you said, I'd say it's about as offensive as it gets.
So, learn a little on the mechanics of emulation, do some research, then come back and run your mouth. Until then, you need to get back in the incubator and come out roaring.
Enjoy my little rant.:cheers:

[ssma2005]

I rest my case...It's just the impression you left, I never stated you said you were god or knew it all etc, learn the mechanics of the English language and the context in which words are used (obvious pun)...And what does having to know about the development of emulators have to do with my feeling about how you come accross with your arrogance?? I guess you were a little too self absorbed to realise the point I was making....

[General Plot]

Don't confuse frustration with arrogance. Your attempt at trying to be a savior is so, well the thought of it makes me so tired. So many people come and go from these forums, and not many stick around. I'm committed to doing what I am able to make this place as good as it can be. But when people who decide to report a bug (and don't misunderstand me, I encourage any help that a user can provide), is then given an explanation to what the bug actually was, this user (this is the part that is annoying) argues solid mechanics with some off the top of his head theory, then I can't help but to be ticked. I am not saying I discovered the bug, I'm not saying I know where it is. I'm saying the authors do. And if anybody is qualified to determine what needs to be fixed, they are. My relaying the information and then having it argued with can be interpreted as an insult to the developers, wouldn't you say? If you can't see this, then perhaps it is you who needs to study this great language of ours a bit more. Either that or just open your eyes.