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[Amon_Knives]

I know I'm reviving several month old (or some years old) threads, but I was wondering if anyone is still doing any remodeling stuff. There was a plugin a while back that could export 3d models from the games, but then it was stopped because of too many bugs (I think). Is it even possible to import new models into the game? The picture below is from a member by the name of Pogo and he worked on this a while back before this retexture stuff was even started. He then trashed the stuff because it was too hard for him. If you could imagine this with the new retexture things, it would be amazing. Is anyone still working with that old 3d plugin exporter and if so, I would like it if the 3d remodeling of Zelda OOT could continue so we can move it into the 21st century.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~kris.mar/Stage%203%20%236.jpg

[Snatch5003]

sorry if it sounds silly but as the n64 had only a certain amount of polygons to play with i think it was 150,000 wouldnt this apply to the emulators as well??

also it would kill my computer as some n64 games bring it to a standstill already

[Amon_Knives]

sorry if it sounds silly but as the n64 had only a certain amount of polygons to play with i think it was 150,000 wouldnt this apply to the emulators as well??

also it would kill my computer as some n64 games bring it to a standstill already

As you may notice, the roms aren't playing on an n64, are they? Putting them on a computer with excellent graphics and memory, anything is possible.

[Federelli]

Still, the emulators are basically limited to the basic ops and stuff a N64 could do.

[KMan]

I think that remodeling is quite a bit out of the scope and ability of most of the people out there. Especially when these characters will need to be animated. They look fine enough as it is, already without a bunch of people making half assed models like that, and making custom models, like a nude link with kokiri wang.

[Amon_Knives]

I think that remodeling is quite a bit out of the scope and ability of most of the people out there. Especially when these characters will need to be animated. They look fine enough as it is, already without a bunch of people making half assed models like that, and making custom models, like a nude link with kokiri wang.

ECK!! Did you really have to give us that mental image. You have a point though. We really don't need half assed models made. But then again, someone like you Kman could come along with excellent 3d skills and do it. Anything's possible.

[Toasty]

I don't know much about the details of 64 emulation, but it seems like it would be extreamly difficult to do. It would probably be quicker to rewrite the game for PC IMO (which would be really cool but would obviously violate copyright laws, at least if it were distributed). Who knows though, maybe changing models can be done similarly to the way textures are changed by some plugins.

[Mojo Man!!!]

It will come with time Amon_Knives, the question is when and with who. The first step I would think the first step is to find someone with skills who is willing to do the job. Although, Toasty might have a point, or a good idea, LOL :P
However, if someone retextured that Link rather nicely, they could take snapshots for the equip menu screen with link in it.

[Amon_Knives]

It will come with time Amon_Knives, the question is when and with who. The first step I would think the first step is to find someone with skills who is willing to do the job. Although, Toasty might have a point, or a good idea, LOL :P
However, if someone retextured that Link rather nicely, they could take snapshots for the equip menu screen with link in it.

Unfortunately, the only thing that looks good on Pogo's link is the hair.

[Quvack]

With the way Link looks in that model, I dont think he's going to be riding Epona anytime soon, maybe if you changed her model to be a "short bus" instead it'd fit together a little better. :P

[Amon_Knives]

With the way Link looks in that model, I dont think he's going to be riding Epona anytime soon, maybe if you changed her model to be a "short bus" instead it'd fit together a little better. :P

Umm, last time, this isn't my model, it's from a member named Pogo in a previous thread.

[Quvack]

Umm, last time, this isn't my model, it's from a member named Pogo in a previous thread.

I realise. I meant "you" as the general style you, not like uhhmmm "YOU" style you! but whatever :P

[Amon_Knives]

I realise. I meant "you" as the general style you, not like uhhmmm "YOU" style you! but whatever :P

ok.

[Mireneye]

Now id really want to be able to replace models man!. I suspect I have the skills... See my work here:
http://www.cgtalk.com/search.php?searchid=1491919

I have quite alot of years modelling, and im also experianced in low poly stuff. Not quite the Zelda Lowpoly stuff, but alil higher then that, about todays standard lowpoly.

Id love to see the feature of remodelling things.
Keep it up, I want it!

Cheers

[Amon_Knives]

Now id really want to be able to replace models man!. I suspect I have the skills... See my work here:
http://www.cgtalk.com/search.php?searchid=1491919

I have quite alot of years modelling, and im also experianced in low poly stuff. Not quite the Zelda Lowpoly stuff, but alil higher then that, about todays standard lowpoly.

Id love to see the feature of remodelling things.
Keep it up, I want it!

Cheers

Well, as there really isn't any way to import the models back into the game, the only way would just be for fun. I saw some of your models and I'm quite impressed. I'd never be able to do any of that. Hey, what do ya say? Could you just make an adult link head or ganondorf head just for fun?
Sounds weird, but I'm really interested in this subject.

[Mireneye]

I was working on ganons head a while back. *Still have a very good texture for it* Which i have painted myself, first good head texture ever IMO... However, it was so long ago that the headmodel sucked... I might be able to make a new head mayhaps. Ill see what i can do, but it takes some time!

I want somebody to get on with something to get models ingame!!! Cheers

[jack]

Well this idea has already been done in the Xbox scene. Some guys there decompress the DVD files of certain games, hack the compression scheme the developers used for the models, and mod it with 3d max. Then they injet the modified model back, recompress everything, and you got nude Dead or Alive Volleyball characters.

You just need someone good with hex and understanding of compression to do it.

[Mireneye]

Actually, that was probably exchanging rextures, or am I wrong?. I have seen this done for many games on PC, and ive seen a game getting 'Ripped' apart, by experianced people. I know some, but they have all very, very much IRL work to do.

Id really like to hear what the programmers around here thinks... Rice are you active here somewhere ?

[Toasty]

I'm a decent programmer IMO, but a noobie emulator programmer, so take what I say with a good pound of salt or so.

I would think that the 64 performs adjustments to specific polygons/sections in the model (for example, to make it move - when Link moves his arms and feet, the vertices of specific sections in the model would have to have their locations changed). If the original model were replaced with a different one, my guess is that the game would either adjust the wrong vertices or just plain crash (I would guess the former of the two, but again, this isn't my area of expertise).

So, you'd have your beautifully detailed Link model staring at you, but the instant he's supposed to move his arm or breathe or anything, his face stretches down to his waist or something weird like that. Anyway, that's just one of the problems I could foresee happening. It would probably be possible to make a game specific modification to the emulator/video plugin that would allow the models in one game to be replaced and act normally, but extensive knowledge of the way the game does all of its model adjustments would be required.

Again, I can't back any of this due to inexperience, but from what little programming I've done with vertex buffers and model skeletons, it seemed like something that would cause problems. I hope I'm wrong and wouldn't be the least bit surprised if I were.

[Amon_Knives]

I would think that the 64 performs adjustments to specific polygons/sections in the model (for example, to make it move - when Link moves his arms and feet, the vertices of specific sections in the model would have to have their locations changed). If the original model were replaced with a different one, my guess is that the game would either adjust the wrong vertices or just plain crash (I would guess the former of the two, but again, this isn't my area of expertise).

I certainly agree. But what if somehow there was a way to alter the locations the vertices would move. I have no experience with modeling or programing, but it's just a thought.

[Mireneye]

Ususally when making armors or clothing for games like Morrowind, all you need to get approporiate deformation and animation is to have the body/clothing linked to a biped or a set of skeleton which contains the same bones and functions. And I think that one may find that out by sniffing in the model format. just my 2 cents.

[DeathFox007]

Still, the emulators are basically limited to the basic ops and stuff a N64 could do.

But then again, N64 console cant handle 32 bit picture files or display almost all the colors in the spectrum. But w/ the emulator, its possible. So who knows bout the model stuff. Maybe it could be done

[Toasty]

I certainly agree. But what if somehow there was a way to alter the locations the vertices would move. I have no experience with modeling or programing, but it's just a thought.
My guess is that it would be a matter of identifying which areas in code modify vertex information and inserting customized code that modifies the new vertices properly. No trivial task, though not impossible by any means. What it really would take is a ROM hacker with lots of time on their hands. If I knew more about 64 emulation I would give it a shot, but I'm still way back at the Chip8 and sound processor emulation level.

Hmmmmm, noobie brainfart - I'm not sure how the 64 video plugins work (we really need an experienced emulator/plugin programmer in this thread) but if they convert the vertex buffers that the 64 uses into vertex buffers that the graphics API natively use on a per-model level (in other words if models get sent from emulated 64 memory to video memory individually) or individual sections of models get brought over at a time, then maybe a model could be replaced in video memory only and then when vertex position changes are sent from the emulator to the graphics API, a translation matrix could be computed to apply somewhat accurate changes to the modified model.

Or if the models don't get sent individually, maybe the emulator could record what parts of the scene are specific models before the whole thing gets sent to video memory and then the graphics API could do the same thing I mentioned above.

I'm not sure if I understand all the stuff I just said or if anyone else will, but it seems like that might work, without the need for game-specific customizations in the plugin. I probably don't have any idea what I'm talking about though. The complexity of a 64 emulator and its plugins is far beyond me right now. We need Rice or Orkin to pay a visit to this thread me thinks. :P

[Mireneye]

I think that could work very well. Ive seen the plugin which can extract models from games, so, they have apparently already cracked the model format somewhat. Extending upon that, what is needed doing is letting the same outputted model to be loaded "Ovveride" The old model. Then it would only need same procedure as texturing.

Good brainstormin!

[Toasty]

Now we just someone to implement this idea in their plugin. :D

[Mireneye]

Im attending a Swedish Secondary school for Programming. But I could never do anything that complex... I talked to one of my friends at school who's a real C++ and general Programming Genious / Nut... He said that it should be very possible, so apparently, there should be a good chance.

[Im Bored]

i just wanna throw some shit in: how long exactly would remodelling zelda take? Christ! the mind boggles. Takes long enuff to "just" retexture a game, and even if you only did the character models, wouldnt they seem out of place? Im happy enuff just editing existing models in games and not adding more vertices. I dont see a need.

[Toasty]

Another idea occured to me today in the shower (isn't that where all good ideas originate?) that instead of having to have the graphics plugin come up with a translation matrix, the custom model could just have the translation information packaged with it by whoever made the model. That way when the game tells the plugin to move a vertex, the plugin can just look up which of the modified model's vertices should be moved and how much/where they should be moved. A little more work for the modeler, but it would probably produce more accurate and less computationally intensive vertex movement calculations.

[Amon_Knives]

Another idea occured to me today in the shower (isn't that where all good ideas originate?) that instead of having to have the graphics plugin come up with a translation matrix, the custom model could just have the translation information packaged with it by whoever made the model. That way when the game tells the plugin to move a vertex, the plugin can just look up which of the modified model's vertices should be moved and how much/where they should be moved. A little more work for the modeler, but it would probably produce more accurate and less computationally intensive vertex movement calculations.

And to think this all started when I just thought of something. I only know half of what you said, but I think I could probably study your posts and pass my computer tech class. lol.

[Mireneye]

Another idea occured to me today in the shower (isn't that where all good ideas originate?) that instead of having to have the graphics plugin come up with a translation matrix, the custom model could just have the translation information packaged with it by whoever made the model. That way when the game tells the plugin to move a vertex, the plugin can just look up which of the modified model's vertices should be moved and how much/where they should be moved. A little more work for the modeler, but it would probably produce more accurate and less computationally intensive vertex movement calculations.

Im rather sceptic that it would be as good. I see that it may be very difficult to add more polys/tris to the engine that way. And you probably would need to come up with a new Model file and create a exporter for it"Well, you probably need similar for the other idea aswell" But I think easiest approach is to exchange the models in the memory. Ofcourse, textures would also need to be reassigned and then the mapping would also need to be figured out, but thats ususally included in the model file, but not always.

[Mireneye]

Another idea occured to me today in the shower (isn't that where all good ideas originate?) that instead of having to have the graphics plugin come up with a translation matrix, the custom model could just have the translation information packaged with it by whoever made the model. That way when the game tells the plugin to move a vertex, the plugin can just look up which of the modified model's vertices should be moved and how much/where they should be moved. A little more work for the modeler, but it would probably produce more accurate and less computationally intensive vertex movement calculations.

Im rather sceptic that it would be as good. I see that it may be very difficult to add more polys/tris to the engine that way. And you probably would need to come up with a new Model file and create a exporter for it"Well, you probably need similar for the other idea aswell" But I think easiest approach is to exchange the models in the memory. Ofcourse, textures would also need to be reassigned and then the mapping would also need to be figured out, but thats ususally included in the model file, but not always.

[Toasty]

The additional translation information wouldn't have to necessitate a new file format, it could still be stored separately. For example, suppose the API the plugin uses is DirectX and it allows models to be imported in the .X format. When the plugin loads the model, it could also check for a file with translation data. If the file was present it would use that data to help translate vertex movements; if there was no translation file, the plugin could either default to creating a translation matrix itself (probably not as accurate), or just not use the custom model. Ideally, in the model folder you'd have two files for each model, something like this (I'm not sure how file names would be assigned to identify models, but I'm guessing it would probably be something like redone texture file names):

GameName_Model#1234ABCD.x (contains the enhanced base model that will be imported)
GameName_Model#1234ABCD.trans (contains customized information that describes how the new vertices should be modified when one of the original ones is changed)

[Mireneye]

Now that is good reasoning. I hope somebody is taking notice of this, somebody really experianced!

[Mireneye]

Usually, I work like 9+ houers before posting something. However, I think I need alot of work on it to make it look more 'Linkish' Right now, its like a mature Mido Version me thinks... AAAH! Any crits welcomed, and, id really like to know, if I should post this in a new thread for next update ?

http://tinypic.com/4qlekn

Cheers
Note: Im currently ashamed of this model, I can do alot better so please, do give me good and constructive criticism to follow!

[neo64]

Hmm... who is it? Link??
Sorry. The whole face doesn't look like Link at all... Mido is who came in my mind first. I think you should rework the face and the hairs...
but it is not bad, it only doesn't look like Link.

[Mireneye]

Ooh, yes its bad... Put one or more houer into it and you may have it halfdecent!. Well, more in this way atleast...

http://tinypic.com/4qmn37

However It still lacks Link.. Maybe, ill redo the whole head... someday later.

[Amon_Knives]

Put freckles, red hair, and a shorter hat and it's mido.

[neo64]

Redoing the head is probably a good idea :) Try to make the whole thing more manga/anime-like.

[porjay]

Redoing the head is probably a good idea :) Try to make the whole thing more manga/anime-like.

No because this is Ocorina of Time NOT Wind Waker :ermm:

[Mireneye]

Im, IMO much better at realistic likeness then Anime style. But I know what you mean. I really need to go through some planning on next try.

[porjay]

i think your doing a hella mad job on the model man keep it up!!

[neo64]

No because this is Ocorina of Time NOT Wind Waker :ermm:
OOT has the manga-style, too. Just have a look at the eyes.

[Mireneye]

i think your doing a hella mad job on the model man keep it up!!

Thanks, thou, its only 3h of work... Ill redo the whole head to match link better! I mean, we cant have Mido running around as link, that ought to be horrible. Haha, maybe ill make a realistic Tingle to have as Link.. Muhahaha!
:party:

[Amon_Knives]

OOT has the manga-style, too. Just have a look at the eyes.

I'd say that is true, but it's not too manga. I'd always thought of it as somewhere between a realistic looking anime and a live action movie. Maybe the characters could be looking realistic manga and the worlds could be realistic.

[Shibb]

if you were really going to try to remodel link, i believe your best bet would be basing it on this http://media.cube.ign.com/media/014/014914/imgs_2.html that was spaceworld 2000 set for the gamecube but was dumped the new zelda coming out has to advanced of a model to create, so good luck with ur modeling mireneye

[Mireneye]

Thankyou!, ive been searching pictures after 'That' Link, beacuse he seemed like a good choice. Finnaly I have some.

Cheers

[mongo51983]

I still don't understand why Nintendo scraped that idea for a Zelda game modelled like that game.

[Kerber2k]

Havnt you seen the new Zelda? It looks much better anyway. Spaceworld was just a graphic test and Link and Ganondorf were the mascots.

[Shibb]

too bad its running on the windwalker engine, so it still looks semi cartoony notice the trailers, i was reading its not as realistic as we are meant to believe... its all speculation at this point, but i believe they should have written a new engine ( time + money) for this game, because it would boost the gamecube sales 100% and make nintendo some desperately needed money. I am buyin a gc just for the new zelda. But I already own a ps2/xbox because the systems have much better games and better modibility, even though thier is the qoob and the viper gc finally out for the gamecube

[Clements]

I thought the engine in WW was pretty decent, especially the fighting, which was enhanced after OoT/MM. It was the endless, tedious, awkward sailing in an almost featureless sea that destroyed most of what could have been an outstanding game. If Link was realistic or even cone-shaped it would have made no difference to the gameplay with that sea in place.

[CoffeeandTV]

I still don't understand why Nintendo scraped that idea for a Zelda game modelled like that game.

Because, in all reality, it looked like shit. They knew they could do MUCH better.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/77ooprscam/zeldacube3.jpg

Although, I must say that the above is 213256548489 times better than:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/77ooprscam/b_9.jpg

I'm praying the new one makes up for Majora's Mask and WW combined, but that is going to be hard to do.

[Shibb]

Because, in all reality, it looked like shit. They knew they could do MUCH better.

I'm praying the new one makes up for Majora's Mask and WW combined, but that is going to be hard to do.



no disrespect, but dude u gotta understand back then, those graphics were amazing, at that time (2000 and 2001) the best graphics u were getting was what q3, cs, df3 and like some rainbow six game prolly and everquest cant forget that, but dude those graphics were unprecidented and personally i thought it was quite good but to each his own
on a site not watch the video the physics of the game were amazing nintendo prolly realized that the gamecube could never and i quote trillville "get on its level" even the new zelda coming out isnt that realistic from the trailer atleast looks pretty cartoony :(

edit: side not ww sucked imo, but majoras mask wasnt a bad game it just didnt live up to the high ass standards set by OOT which is quite possibly the best game of all time, so it isnt a totally fair comparision.

[CoffeeandTV]

edit: side not ww sucked imo, but majoras mask wasnt a bad game it just didnt live up to the high ass standards set by OOT which is quite possibly the best game of all time, so it isnt a totally fair comparision.

I am, of course, being extremely harsh on Nintendo due to their failure to stay loyal to any of their titles. I actually enjoyed MM, but that's because I played it BEFORE OoT. After playing OoT, I saw the true limits of the Zelda series. In my opinion, I would rather play the original Legend of Zelda 20 times than even look at Windwaker.

What Nintendo should really do is sell the Zelda franchise to a more "deserving" developer. I only wish I could see a remake of OoT on the new Xbox. Until Nintendo can come to their senses and take a good look at what is actually GOOD GAMING, instead of trying to make a "revolutionary" (read: strange and pointless) gadget, I believe that their game quality will continue fall rapidly until we have such wonderous games as 'Mario Curling' or "Legend of Zelda: The Magic Screwdriver'.

no disrespect, but dude u gotta understand back then, those graphics were amazing, at that time (2000 and 2001) the best graphics u were getting was what q3, cs, df3 and like some rainbow six game prolly and everquest cant forget that, but dude those graphics were unprecidented and personally i thought it was quite good but to each his own
on a site not watch the video the physics of the game were amazing nintendo prolly realized that the gamecube could never and i quote trillville "get on its level" even the new zelda coming out isnt that realistic from the trailer atleast looks pretty cartoony :(

Just take one look at Halo/GT3.

[Mireneye]

I hope somebody makes notice of this thread...

Ok, this is getting a lil bit offtopic. I playe A Link to the Past when I was really small. And totally loved it, it was my first love for Zelda. Then I helped finishing it off with my double cousin!. Then, I occasionaly started to play the first 2 games at my parents friends house, and ofcourse compared it to ALTTP and it was still very good games. When OOT came out i was hyped about the 3d, and to see the next epic piece be unfold. I played it, and it beacame one of the best game ever!... MM was holding my breath for an Excellent game, I was slightly dissapointed... Never really had the urge to finish it off without Zelda or Ganon involved...
*PLayed GB / GBA games sometime inbetween all*
Then came windwaker which was in my meaning a worthy followup on the series, except the ending. And now the second Zelda, I feel as I have been awaiting for this for a LOOONG time now, Nintendo has brung the series to its peak I think. and I cant help to say that I suspect the timeline of this is Set somewhere when before ALTTP in the ongoing war, or before. Only time will tell...

Cheers

[Shibb]

dude i understand that but nintendo doesnt have m$ budget and gta was a break through game its still amazing how it renders all that shit without laggin the ps2

[CoffeeandTV]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/77ooprscam/graphage.jpg

Feel free to dispute that, but that is how I see it.
Thread officially de-railed. :canadian:

[DarthDazDC]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/77ooprscam/graphage.jpg

Feel free to dispute that, but that is how I see it.
Thread officially de-railed. :canadian:
you are one sad, sad little boy. Get out more, and get a gf.

[Kerber2k]

Dude wtf how does WW suck...granted it was Nintendos lazy way to hold off the masses untill a 100X better Zelda came out. WW had awsome gameplay and if you blur your eyes its kinda like playing a cartoon. You kids should play the game before you diss it anyhow. Zelda quality hasnt decreased, and it isnt going down hill like the chart says just in a diffrent direction.

[Toasty]

Well, this thread's already way off-topic, so I thought I'd throw in my opinion for the heck of it. (Keep in mind it is my opinion, and if your opinion differs, this isn't meant to be insulting.)

I have a hard time comparing OOT and MM because they were both so good IMO, but I'd probably have to say OOT was my favorite because it held more true to the Zelda name as far as its plot was concerned. I still really liked MM for its originality and the hint that another sequel would follow in which Link continued his search for his long lost friend, but I wish the game had been a bit longer than four major dungeons.

WW was definitely not my favorite, though I don't consider it a complete failure. The game was fairly enjoyable - enough that I was willing to play through it more than once. But I have to agree with Clements that the endless (and for the most part, empty) sea was very monotonous. The cel-shaded graphics didn't really bug me too much, but I would definitely have liked it better with OOT/MM-ish graphics. WW didn't seem to have enough "darkness" to it either. In OOT after Link traveled forward in time it was obvious that something had to be done about Ganondorf - he had laid waste to Hyrule. Similarly, in MM all you had to do was look up into the sky to see that the world was in big trouble. For the most part, WW just seemed cheery for a majority of the game. Sure, the dungeons had plenty of puzzles to solve and even creepy parts to them, but there never seemed to be a *global threat* visible that had to be dealt with, just a 1,000+ year old king/boat sending you on missions.

From the looks of things, Zelda 2005 will be more OOT-ish, which I'm really looking forward to. Hopefully Nintendo won't botch it up.

[Mojo Man!!!]

This is how I see it. When most of us where young, we thought the NES or SNES was the best thing in the world. We liked the Legend of Zelda or Super Mario Bros because those games excited our imagination. All those good memories stay with us when we think of that game. Kids don't care whether the graphics are realistic or cartoony. Little kids now days don't give crap about The Legnend of Zelda for the NES.
About WW (this is my opinion) Nintendo was aiming the game at a new demographic. They wanted to get new kids to fall in love with the franchise. Once again I think little kids don't care what link looks like if they can identifiy with him; isn't it every boy's dream to grow up to be a hero? I think the new LOZ is going to be what most of us want; a more mature and thick plot with a dose of wicked graphics.

[Clements]

OoT has to be my favorite Zelda, it plays exactly like a 3D version of ALttTP with the best elements of Link's Awakening thrown in for good measure, and then on top added Epona which was pretty revolutionary. There were 8 main dungeons, and three or four smaller dungeons with plenty of variety. The game had no real glaring flaws about it. I know this game backwards and can complete it with zero deaths and all the items since I have replayed it about 6 times. The only thing I have never done in the game is catch the fabled Hylian Loach. Caught the 20lb fish, but not the Loach, since I have never seen it. Best pic I've seen is here:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/craigclements/images.jpg

Majora's Mask for me played completely different. The entire Clock Town was a work of genius, with characters going off at specific times like clockwork. The graphics and sound are much richer than in OoT, and the story was much more important and is much more tied in with characters in the game. Being able to use four characters was just awesome. The dungeons were tougher than the one in OoT. It was great to see so many characters from the original OoT to return. The game had some glaring flaws though that pretty much ruined it. The sidequests took over the actual game, so there were hardly any dungeons. You lost a lot of items and rupees when you went back in time and all the dungeons reset back and you have to do everything again. For me, this made me go into "race mode" just so I didn't have to redo things tons of times, and caused the game to be over before it begun, which was a shame. You also had to wait a long time for the time-based events to start even when using the song of double time (annoying on the real N64 when there is no way to speed the game up), and if you messed up you have to warp to Day One and repeat everything. This game was still great because there are elements to it which I wish could have been in OoT.

Wind Waker was a mixture of Majora's and OoT, but added new stuff. The combat was flat out better. The story was okay. I thought the graphics were sharp and great to see in motion. Garrickson looked a lot like Freddie Mercury which is a always a plus. It all fell apart when you had to collect all the triforce charts/pieces etc. when you were in the sea for hours on end, and these annoying Peahat enemies prolong it by knocking you off the boat. You had to change the wind direction when you want to go somewhere else. Gannondorf looked totally wrong, like a Bishop chess piece. The dungeons were also a bit too easy. Overall it was still pretty good though.

The GC as a whole has been a little disappointing since it has become more of a mainstream thing rather than just for hardcore gamers like N64, but there are a few classics in there that made my GC purchase worthwhile many times over.

[Shibb]

your analysis of the games was very good, id never heard of the hylian loach but now im going to look into it :) I totally agree with your mm analysis, and wanted to add that being the deku kid at the begining of the game, was a rather stupid and annoying element which detracted from the game. I thought the game while it didnt live up to oot's greatness had some good ideas but they werent incorportaed correctly ie time passing, and the main villan being the jackass in the mask, granted I havent played the game in over 2 years, getting the diety mask made the game worth it.

[CoffeeandTV]

Please do not get me wrong here. I enjoyed MM and thought it was an excellent game. It was just a little bit of a dissappointment when it came to replay value, longevity, and the fact that it tended to draw away from the concept of Legend of Zelda. When I speak badly about WW, I am also speking comparitively. OoT and MM are complete triumphs compared to WW. Nintendo took a game that had "grown up" with me over time and completely turned it around. Instead of maturing the series, they turned it into a Saturday Morning Cartoon.

I also have a great dislike for the mainstream "anime-style" due to it's extreme lack of maturity. I enjoy the realistic.

Clements, I enjoyed your unbiased evaluation of the games and respect your opinions, but I have yet to find one game that would make buying a GC worthwhile. Resident Evil 4 and SB:Melee almost had me, but not after playing them for bit. The GC is just engineered towards a much younger age group.

you are one sad, sad little boy. Get out more, and get a gf.

Somehow, I wish I could still be that little boy....

[Clements]

Honestly I've never cared if the game is for adults or not, as long as it's fun and lasts me a while it's all good. I don't let graphical styles restrict my gaming choices since graphics is not what determines whether a game sucks or not.

[ragnor]

well, everyone else is posting their personal opinions, why the hell shouldn't I? WW didn't look like garbage... LINK looked like garbage. The rest of the game was pretty dope, just the characters looked like someone had a bad day, and decided to make our playing experience lowered. That, and the ocean. Holy Crap. The ocean was pimp for about the first... 20 minutes? Then it was the worst, most godawful chore ever. But I never dug that part of the Zelda series... fetch quests aren't why I play games. EXPECIALLY long, drawn out fetch quests that involve an hour of play just so I can almost advance in the plot. On the plus-side, the fighting was superb. The engine was like what I always wanted OOT to play like. Very similar to OOT, but just different enough to make me feel more nimble, and less like a fat kid wielding a toothpick.
Never played MM. Time-limits drive me nuts, but it certainly was a graphical Milestone for the N64.
But as far as the best games go, in my mind? Definitely going to be OOT and Link's awakening. I dont think I ever spent as much time on ANY game as I did on LA. It was just different enough from a link to the past, and the previous games to make it fresh, and the way it was concieved and played out was brilliant. OOT was definitely amazing as well, for taking Link into 3d (and not doing a crappy job of it, like most first-time 3d explorations for game franchises) and for the gameplay. The tageting system was so different from what we had known, and the other elements of the game were so well implemented. The only detractors were the freaking fetch-quests. Bleh. Not to mention putting a time-limit on part of the game. =/ I'm not playing an adventure-RPG to see if I can play it at breakneck speed... There are already plenty of games like that.

[jdsony]

Link to the past was the best Zelda game for me. OOT was also very good but going to 3D almost needed a little more tweaking. The first thing that really bothered me was the action button and real lack of jumping. I realize Link could never jump before but in 3D it's something I expect. Sure you could jump if you were on the edge of something or when you did a specific move in combat but it felt so forced. I never played WW so I don't know what the combat is like but at the time the combat in OOT was excellent but I would expect much more today.

[Accaris]

I thoroughly enjoyed exploring the ocean in Windwaker and at no point during the game did I get frustrated or bored, not even collecting triforce pieces. I guess I'm the only one.

Now that most of the best Gamecube games can be found for $12 or less used, and the console was $50 used, it was one of the best bang-for-buck purchases I've done in a long time.

[Shibb]

ok get back on topic. anyone able to remodel link / gannon / zelda / saria / epona? in oot

[Mireneye]

Im working on Link... Hav'nt really settled upon a definite style I want to use... I need to explore the style they have more.

[Shibb]

can you say cartoony? one of many screens from the new zelda im not convinced this will be much better than ww, i was hoping for realism not what im seeing from these screens but come october i guess ill find out :plain:
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/068/reviews/920769_20050310_screen008.jpg

but other screens like this look hot
http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/594/594923/the-legend-of-zelda-gcn-20050310012023646.jpg

[Clements]

If you want realism, play Doom 3/Half-Life 2 all day. Zelda is not meant to be photorealistic - if it was it would look utterly out of place - more so than even Wind Waker (which looked a lot like ALttP anyway). That said, the graphics are no more cartoony that the PS2 Final Fantasy games.

[Kerber2k]

The game looks great...return to the anime styling of OOT. Realistic looking Zelda is the dumbest idea since Tingle. Perhaps Tom Clancy should make a LoZ where you sneak around in the shadows, climbing up vines, and breaking royal gaurds necks. Please god leave Zelda as it is anime\arcade game with puzzles, and a storyline that keeps me and other zelda fans playing till the end. Wether it be slightly more mature than usual or the less popular cartoon cel shaded.

[HoJu Simpson]

They are great games, but the storylines are not what keeps me playing. Nor are they original.

[porjay]

They are great games, but the storylines are not what keeps me playing. Nor are they original.

how old are you

[HoJu Simpson]

27. Why?

[Shibb]

goto www.gamespot.com and goto zelda gc and look at the developers comments under news, nintendo said its aiming for realism so wether you like it or not this is what they consider realistic, and zelda would be much better with a more realistic feel, hes a hero if u remember the cd i discs released way back when they aimed for realism not childish crap, its more of an adult themed thinkin game, and it needs to evolve with technology, just my two sense though for what its worth...

[Clements]

The Phillips CD-i games bombed and played like garbage. Plus, cartoon != childish last time I checked. The graphics of the new Zelda DO look impressive for what the GC is capable of, and is faithful to the original series.

[Shibb]

lol i like the c++ there, to each his own as i said, I feel that the series wasnt meant to be cartoony and their is a serious realistic aspect to it As for nintendo if they released a better console instead of the gamecube (it would be more impressive, but i feel they are trying to litterally trick the eye with these graphics and the 2 trailers) :P in comparision to the xbox it was a joke, not only did it not have anywhere near as many features (expandability, modability until recently), it is also much harder to develop for :(. But seeing as how this topic was started for zelda remodeling, should i start a thread of zelda serious discussion? Or maybe youd be willing to do that clements (since your a mod) like a official zelda spam thread, where we can discuss the game entirely?
k good comments though guys

[Clements]

The Xbox comment sort of explains all your other comments. You come off as an Xbox fanboy and never followed or understood the Zelda series at all.

[ragnor]

well, I think the real question here is wtf is realistic? I mean, if you're thinking RE4 meets Zelda, you're barking up the wrong franchise. They decided what Link looks like a long time ago, and there are various interpretations of him, but there always is and will be a single theme that they stick too. That theme is FICTION. I mean, last I checked, there aren't many fire-covered bats, nor have I found a lot of their natural habitat: underground labrynths containing reanimated skeletons and witches... It looks fairly realistic in it's choice of colors, texture, and skeletal/character animation, which considering the actual storyline and bestiary, ought to be enough, at least for this time around. (did anyone actually WATCH the trailer with the "realistic" ganon and link? Gimme a break.)

[Shibb]

The Xbox comment sort of explains all your other comments. You come off as an Xbox fanboy and never followed or understood the Zelda series at all.
talk about arrogance, respect for hardware means im an xbox fanboy? and that i dont understand the zelda series, give me a break, thats a hypocritical statement and uncalled for thx. Because i hold a view that differs from yours and i objectively state it, you go for a low blow? I personally believe i prolly know more about zelda, and just because im well intune with moding, and dashboard modifying and creating on the xbox that some how means i know less than you about a game, hardly. I dont respect nintendo notice all their games they now aim at an age group that no longer plays those games their are only 3 games on gc atm that i even enjoy, but im not sure how that makes me less of a zelda fan ( no logic behind the statement). I was simply trying to imply nintendo needs to get on that ball notice how much market share they lost in the past 3 years. (it is only recently going up due to the fact their is an under supply of xbox and ps2) but thank you for that comment :ala:

edit : IGNcube: Nintendo's console market share has continued to drop over the last 10 years.

also you may all be taking me wrong on this im talking realism in that of physics, and his apperance.Link need not look cartoony like he does from the screens ive seen, he needs to get back to the look of oot when links an adult or even the fierce diety mask which is a model of adult link from oot (with texture mods) that is precisely what i meant, look at how the models appear to be rendered, its like partial cell anime, i frankly think its annoying, but who knows

[Mireneye]

Realistic... *thinks* aah... Like this?

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?t=71582&highlight=link+Zelda

EEK, god no!, why ? beacuse, where did links character run off to!... He has no link characters... Haha, almost like a decent cosplayer. But Some cosplayers even do better. No, Link is and should be a stylished character 4 Ever!... Btw, what they mean with realitic is realitic in comparison to WW, and previous games. And they may have realistic graphics... That does'nt mean the scenery and characters can be stylished and realitic looking.

Cheers

[Clements]

Shibb: Well, if you like the Xbox, fine. But by posting in a thread like this championing the Xbox and slating the GC you are just offending a lot of people, me included.

[mongo51983]

I personally don't understand why everyone hates The Wind Waker Game just because the graphics are cartoony. The reason behind the cartoon look is because Link is a child and he sees the world as cartoony which some children don't see the world as how real it looks until you get older. Things look larger and more colorful as a child compared to an adult and that is what the creator was going for when making this game. As for the new Zelda that is coming out you can see it's darker and more realistic that being Link is an adult in the game. Also having super realistic looking Link doesn't fit in with the concept of link being a fantasy type character, he does have elf type ears. I personally loved every Zelda game I've played, even Zelda II for the nes had some good points to it, it was different from the others but kept some of the original ideas. I also don't feel that the Gamecube is just geared towards children, they have a lot of adult games, Metroid series, Resident Evil series just to name a few. It's not Nintendo's fault that all their top mascot games are mostly played by children, also most of those mascot games were played when we were children.

[Shibb]

ok clements fair enough ill leave my personal problems with the gamecube out of this thread... but i feel that pic you found mire was good excluding the entire head face, ears ect and that he needs more of a robe for the body, im ok with the non realistic face, but interms of the body i love it http://www.hipoly.de/upload/wip/link/Link_wip_02_b_big.jpg

[Mojo Man!!!]

That is freakin sweet!!! :drool: Other than the head it looks positively perfect! IMO that ultra-realistic head looks like it came straight out of StarTrek not a Nintendo game. We need to find middle ground; take for example "The Incredibles". There is alot of realism, but just enough 'artistist character' to give it a flavor. The fact is link isn't link without his oversized eyes and magic sword. How can LOZ ever be realistic when when it is a land filled with magic oceranas and fairies? We all have a slighly different view of what link sould look like.

[Amon_Knives]

Keep up the good work, Shibb!

Ok, just to get one thing straight...just because someone posts a pic of something, doesn't mean they created it really. Shibb was just using that as an example and so was Mireneye. It was acually made by a CGTalk member by the name of Carny (unless Mireneye has changed his name on there since the last time I was on there looking at his work). Please, people, read the words before you look at the pretty pictures. If you still wanna do that, read a childrens book.

Sorry, I just can't stand people giving credit where it is not due. Mireneye, I can't wait to see your take on a link model.

[Toasty]

I agree that Link shouldn't be completely realistic - I think I'd rather play WW than a Zelda game with the Link head in the pics above - no offense to the artist, in other places that type of modeling would be excellent, but that is *not* Link's face.

But, I also think that Link shouldn't be completely unrealistic. A properly proportioned body, detailed environments and realistic coloring definitely make the game more engrossing for me anyway.

[ragnor]

I think the idea was that the head will be remodeled. if you checked the threadlink... it's a placeholder for now. Anyway, it was an awesome example of a remodel. thx to whoever posted the link to that thread

[Mireneye]

Im actually working on my Link model. Ive finnaly bagan finalizing my studies on how you archive his character. And also reviewed what I did wrong.

Cheers

[ragnor]

Read this on IGN, thought I'd add it in here. I liked what it said, because it summed up OOT for me:
"When he speaks, there is a phrase that Mr. Miyamoto always mentions that speaks directly to the very nature of the Zelda series. The phrase is, 'Zelda is a game that values reality over realism.' In the art world, realism is a movement to faithfully replicate the real world to whatever extent possible. Reality is not mimicking the real world, but rather making players feel like what they are experiencing is real. The big difference is that even exaggerated expression through toon-shading can be an effective means of making things feel more real."

from this article:
http://cube.ign.com/articles/501/501970p1.html

[Mireneye]

I think im finnaly sucseeding to get the Link model to loook closer to Link then Mido.. However, there are still things... Its hard when im tryin to model the eyes and Mouth to match the ones from normal Lil link or *grown up link*

Well here is my progress:
http://tinypic.com/551e69

[CoffeeandTV]

The game looks great...return to the anime styling of OOT. Realistic looking Zelda is the dumbest idea since Tingle. Perhaps Tom Clancy should make a LoZ where you sneak around in the shadows, climbing up vines, and breaking royal gaurds necks. Please god leave Zelda as it is anime\arcade game with puzzles, and a storyline that keeps me and other zelda fans playing till the end. Wether it be slightly more mature than usual or the less popular cartoon cel shaded.


Anime is the bastard son of a Japanese batchelor and saturday morning cartoons. Please, for God's sake, get away from the idea that Zelda is anime. I'm not saying that all anime is bad, but that which we consider anime these days IS. Any show where girls wear school uniforms + oversized pupils + dementedly over-stylized emotions + cheap animation (Anime) is terrible. Period. The only "Anime" that I have enjoyed lately are Ghost in the Shell, The Animatrix, and Paranoia Agent. I enjoy realism in my cartoons, not immature insanity.

/rant

[Kerber2k]

Anime is the bastard son of a Japanese batchelor and saturday morning cartoons. Please, for God's sake, get away from the idea that Zelda is anime. I'm not saying that all anime is bad, but that which we consider anime these days IS. Any show where girls wear school uniforms + oversized pupils + dementedly over-stylized emotions + cheap animation (Anime) is terrible. Period. The only "Anime" that I have enjoyed lately are Ghost in the Shell, The Animatrix, and Paranoia Agent. I enjoy realism in my cartoons, not immature insanity.

/rant

I hate to break it to ya sunny jim but the artist/artists for ALL Zelda games have been Japenese...not only that but the art form most of their games have, and will always be ANIME. Eiji Aonuma Artist behind the classic OOT uses anime art styles...and hes the one behind the new game Twilight...BTW its still ANIME. Lets not forget kiddies that Zelda is a japenese franchise, and always will be. Let us not forget the Phillips CDI Zelda.......the horror...
http://img272.echo.cx/img272/5605/cdi49ba.th.jpg (http://img272.echo.cx/my.php?image=cdi49ba.jpg)

[Mireneye]

One notice... saying the *anime style* in itself is wrongt since anime is *Japanimation* And games can't really inherit a Anime style in the same fashion as anime series. Cel-Shaded is the closest. The style they do however inherit is a charictature style which is similar to anime in many ways beacuse artists themselves sees that style to easy to follow and adapt to, and you dont need to concider anathomy just as much as with real bodies.

I believe you above watched to small amount of anime... Im up to about 50 series that ive seen and finished. And I think you got it all wrong!. But Kerber, i also think as previously stated that its not really anime. Beacuse literally its impossible ;)

Cheers

[Kerber2k]

Seriously now Ive discussed this with some of my closest Zelda fans and they understand what I mean when I say "anime" style. Japan has a style of wich they all closely follow...and no not necissarily all big eyes and wierd hair. This is sterotypicall yes true...but lets think of it this way Zelda was born in japan....the artist grew up in japan probably watched alot of anime when he was younger. He bases most of his art style off what he saw growing up. Granted he puts his own twist on his artwork, but who doesnt really. IMO the art for Zelda is anime simply because thats the way I see it. I can literally see the japenese style to it. I love his art this isnt a matter of that. If you dont call it Anime what do you want to call it "Japan art style" thats just too damn long to type....

-Peace im out.

[Kerber2k]

I think im finnaly sucseeding to get the Link model to loook closer to Link then Mido.. However, there are still things... Its hard when im tryin to model the eyes and Mouth to match the ones from normal Lil link or *grown up link*

Well here is my progress:
http://tinypic.com/551e69


I see your modeling talent....but mabey put it to practical use, and re-render the 2d scenes in OOT. I say this because I dont see a plugin for N64 games that will import models...or did I? Oh well I didnt see one practically being used in a thread where they were re-modeling zelda not to diss this thread.
Im sick of discussing things completly un-related with this thread other than having to do with Zelda so lets start modeling somthing we can use now guys!

[mongo51983]

Ok thats just scary looking with no eyes.

[MuhMuh]

Sorry, but in my opinion this head is just ugly. X_x

[ragnor]

what happened to Mireneye?

[Cybertronic]

I think im finnaly sucseeding to get the Link model to loook closer to Link then Mido.. However, there are still things... Its hard when im tryin to model the eyes and Mouth to match the ones from normal Lil link or *grown up link*

Well here is my progress:
http://tinypic.com/551e69

Um... :puke: 900^10

I you do have modeling skills, but that head is UGLY, and it dosent even look 3d Manga Style... (It isnt Called Anime style for all you who called it that. i can explain the difference if you have questions.)

[I_love_Link]

Here's a suggestion: Why don't you try remodelling something small, say a pot, and at least try to get THAT working before you tackle the bigger stuff like characters.

[porjay]

Um... :puke: 900^10

I you do have modeling skills, but that head is UGLY, and it dosent even look 3d Manga Style... (It isnt Called Anime style for all you who called it that. i can explain the difference if you have questions.)

Its still WIP rather then disgard his work why not suggest on what would make it better?

I think its getting there after every image he's posted its started getting closer to link. Keep it up man i can't wait to see your progress.

[neo64]

Hmm, this head has absolutely NOTHING in common with this:

[law56ker]

he kinda looks liek a woman.

[neo64]

he kinda looks liek a woman.
Yes, a bit, perhaps. But that's only because of the mouth and the nose. The rest looks very good, and I'm really looking forward to the upcoming Zelda title.

[Cybertronic]

Its still WIP rather then disgard his work why not suggest on what would make it better?

Fine then mr. Smarty pants.... IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN OBVIOUS WITHOUT ME POINTING IT OUT....

http://www.pi.net/upload_mm/6/9/1/1982185120_1999997011_zelda_link_337x253 .jpg
It is wrong to give people false support ya know... when its wrong its WRONG! It just isnt even remotely shaped like link. The jaw is wrong the eyes are sunk too deep.


now where was I.... ah yes...

:puke: 900^10

[I_love_Link]

he kinda looks liek a woman.

Hmm. I don't see it...

[porjay]

Fine then mr. Smarty pants.... IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN OBVIOUS WITHOUT ME POINTING IT OUT....

http://www.pi.net/upload_mm/6/9/1/1982185120_1999997011_zelda_link_337x253 .jpg
It is wrong to give people false support ya know... when its wrong its WRONG! It just isnt even remotely shaped like link. The jaw is wrong the eyes are sunk too deep.


now where was I.... ah yes...

:puke: 900^10

How am i being a smarty pants? If you created something wouldn't you rather people make suggestions on how to make it better rather then saying its crap don't bother?

You also can't judge on something so early its still in WIP (Work in Progress) which means he's still working on it. Most projects don't look fantastic untill there 60% complete. So don't bash his work just yet.

[Amon_Knives]

How am i being a smarty pants? If you created something wouldn't you rather people make suggestions on how to make it better rather then saying its crap don't bother?

You also can't judge on something so early its still in WIP (Work in Progress) which means he's still working on it. Most projects don't look fantastic untill there 60% complete. So don't bash his work just yet.

Amen to that, porjay.

Here, Cybertronic, what porjay is trying to say is...Work in progress means it's not done yet, and the only reason he is even posting that is to get input on how to make it better and saying it sucks doesn't help anything at all so u might as well keep ur mouth shut unless u have something useful to say.

[Mireneye]

Hahaha... Yea, your right, if you compare it to how link really looks, its crap... I have a few things in mind that I want to speak of, if I may, dont take it personal. For starters iv'e been modelling heads for alil less then a year seriously. Among the hardest thing to do without proper concept for a modeller is to catch a well known characters appearance in his own model. It takes time and is as I said very time consuming, personally I dont want to sit and model something for houers only to get a few lines from people who apparently may or may not understand what criticim is all about. You should'nt just say "Its bad" Beacuse my question to you is what parts are bad? What can improve it?, and mayhaps i should just scrap it and start anew? Such questions... I sympathise with the people thinking I should start anew. Beacuse once a model gets its structure its not as easy to change as if it was just shaping up. Keep in mind, the headmodel I have in mind should land in somewhere between young link in OOT and Link from the animated series.

And If anybody could draw concept art of link. one from Exact Frontside, and one from Exact LeftSide and one Exact Above of the head i betcha i could do it better ;)

Cheers

[Cybertronic]

Hahaha... Yea, your right, if you compare it to how link really looks, its crap... I have a few things in mind that I want to speak of, if I may, dont take it personal. For starters iv'e been modelling heads for alil less then a year seriously. Among the hardest thing to do without proper concept for a modeller is to catch a well known characters appearance in his own model. It takes time and is as I said very time consuming, personally I dont want to sit and model something for houers only to get a few lines from people who apparently may or may not understand what criticim is all about. You should'nt just say "Its bad" Beacuse my question to you is what parts are bad? What can improve it?, and mayhaps i should just scrap it and start anew? Such questions... I sympathise with the people thinking I should start anew. Beacuse once a model gets its structure its not as easy to change as if it was just shaping up. Keep in mind, the headmodel I have in mind should land in somewhere between young link in OOT and Link from the animated series.

And If anybody could draw concept art of link. one from Exact Frontside, and one from Exact LeftSide and one Exact Above of the head i betcha i could do it better ;)

Cheers


HAH! IN YOUR FACE AMON!!! I hope all your future films suck

I can draw a link in those angles, but I wont be able to post it for 2 weeks, because I will be in Hungary...

[Amon_Knives]

And thats in my face how? ha, your funny Cybertronic, but spamming across the threads won't get you anywhere. In case you haven't noticed, Mireneye is trying to tell you to quit critisizing and understand its still WIP. Seriously dude, if you don't know what someone is talking about, just be quiet, because you are just making yourself look more like a retard...not that you need any of our help. I don't know what problem you have with people, but listen to those of us that have reason...
Here, I'll explain. You said it looked like crap, porjay tried to explain it, I clarified what WIP means, Mireneye then admitted that it does look bad, but then said it was still a WIP and that instead of critsizing, you should be helping, then you said "In my face"...do you have any idea how retarded that makes you look, at all? Mireneye was talking to you, saying to quit flaming this thread...to put it bluntly...but apparently you only focused on the first line.

You wanna help finally by drawing link's profile up...be my guest. maybe then you will finally realize what WIP means. but until then...quit complaining, seriously, everyone is getting tired of hearing from you.

Mireneye, for those of us that understand WIP, keep up the good work. If I could draw as well as I can do things with a computer, I would help with that, but alas, I guess your stuck with Mr. Bitchandmoan. Do what you can whenever you get the time to do it.

BTW, Cybertronic, you say you shouldn't give people faalse support...give us one good reason we should support you in your statements.

"It's better to remain quiet, and be thought a fool, than to open it, and remove all doubt." couldn't have put it better myself.....or should I say "in your face" as you so bluntly put it

[Googol]

Haha... mmm... flaming. I completely agree with you, Amon_Knives. As soon as I saw that post, I was just waiting for you to show up. I can draw a bit, so maybe I could help you out, but most likely I'll just find a bit of official art for you to work off of. Seeya!

[Mireneye]

Thanks for your concern guys, I appriciate it. As for replacing models to be back into the maindisscussion, shoul'nt it be possible to exchange the modeldata which is read from the memory and then displayed ? I dont really see how such a thing can be so many times harder then textures ? Is it mayhaps the way the modeldata is compressed within the format ? Id really like to hear an expert opinion on this. My programmer friend, said that in theory its very possible.

Cheers

[Im Bored]

weelll, im no programmer, so yeah, im probably wrong, but!:

Every vertice of the models in N64 Games have data addresses, theres ones for X,Y,Z Positions, RGBA shading (32 bit) and texture application. This is fine. You can manually change these and reshape polys. The problem with loading higher poly count models in, id assume, is when the ROM file or whatever just flat out runs out of area to write and or store these addresses...in which case your computer will swear at you and touch you.

What im trying to say with phrases that arent right, is, in simple terms, its like drawing something on a piece of paper but having too small a piece of paper. You could get some done but then when you tried to add more bits itd go off the paper and yeah.

well i suck. Peace.

[Mireneye]

Aah, you forget, you can always fetch more paper ;)... I think since the emulator is what puts up the limits, i believe it can extend upon them. *Imo, getting more paper* =)

Cheers

[Cybertronic]

I understand what WORK IN PROGRESS is but it is started out wrong! It constitutes a DO OVER. When I fuck up a drawing I CRUMPLE IT UP and draw it again!

You are a Forum Nazi nothing more. You dont scare me, and I dont care If I get banned for saying I hate the WIP so far. I got better things to do then listen to your little German ass. BTW I have always hated your avitar.

[Im Bored]

God, youre a bit mature arent you? I think you are better than us. Could you hold on a second though, i think i hear der führer calling.

[Clements]

Cybertronic - cut the crap. This is the last warning.

[Amon_Knives]

ummm, German????? WTF, Im from Texas. Whats up with you now? It does seem odd that I'm sitting here being very calm and collected, telling you how things are, while you are getting all mad about it. makes you wonder who is more mature here.Thanks Clements for stepping in, this guy never knows what he is talking about. Maybe we can get back on subject, finally.

BTW, In case I'm not mistaken, that was a racist post you put...and although I'm American, I would like to say that I take offense to that on behalf of the Germans in this forum.

[CoffeeandTV]

Quiet children.

[ragnor]

heh. thank you, coffee

[Amon_Knives]

Quiet children.

????...anyways...

[ragnor]

His point was that this is a stupid flamewar that has gotten out of hand, and everyone needs to back the hell up and get on with their lives. Your texturing abilities are not in question, Amon, so let's move on. You're sticking up for other people, and that's nice, but it's kinda getting out of hand, because this is a thread for remodeling, not for fighting.

[Amon_Knives]

ok, im chilling...thanks ragnor

[ragnor]

heh, np. Everyone needs a reality check now and again. Speakin of your texturing... what ever happened to your WIP?

[Amon_Knives]

Personal stuff going on. But don't worry, I started yesterday, getting my old stuff ready for beta 10, then I'll keep working...ok, going off subject again...i hate when i do that.

[Cybertronic]

....You wanna help finally by drawing link's profile up...be my guest. maybe then you will finally realize what WIP means. but until then...quit complaining, seriously, everyone is getting tired of hearing from you.

Mireneye, for those of us that understand WIP, keep up the good work. If I could draw as well as I can do things with a computer, I would help with that, but alas, I guess your stuck with Mr. Bitchandmoan. Do what you can whenever you get the time to do it.....



hmmm I dont see how it gave me a better understanding of WIP... :whistling

but....

Your Friend Bitchandmoan is back! :happy: *glares at Amon* (no hard feelings right?) I finally got around to drawing up some pics. Maybe they will help you make a better head, (I still think you need to scrap the old head, there is no way your going to convert it into what is in these pics! It would to too hard to do that anyways.) The ones in the Zip file are the full size ones from the scanner, print em up, sell em, burn em, use em for darts, give em to your friends, or what ever, but most important of all... have fun with em! ^_^
(The Top view is CRAP :puke: 9^10 but you wanted that view too.. isnt very interesting though. Anime Almost never shows extreme top view of a head.)

Oh and Please for the love of god study how a head is shaped! (http://www.bakaneko.com/howto/computer/3d/head/index.html)

[Amon_Knives]

I can't tell if ur bitter or in a good mood...oh well...lol...jk

Nice drawings, eyes could be a little smaller, but still very good. Better than I could do, so hey.

[Cybertronic]

Yeah, people tend to have trouble reading me, I guess thats why most people tend to shy away from me. Thx I like my drawing too! ^_^ I cant wait to see someone make a model based off these.

[eddiethegreat]

hmmm I dont see how it gave me a better understanding of WIP... :whistling

but....

Your Friend Bitchandmoan is back! :happy: *glares at Amon* (no hard feelings right?) I finally got around to drawing up some pics. Maybe they will help you make a better head, (I still think you need to scrap the old head, there is no way your going to convert it into what is in these pics! It would to too hard to do that anyways.) The ones in the Zip file are the full size ones from the scanner, print em up, sell em, burn em, use em for darts, give em to your friends, or what ever, but most important of all... have fun with em! ^_^
(The Top view is CRAP :puke: 9^10 but you wanted that view too.. isnt very interesting though. Anime Almost never shows extreme top view of a head.)

Oh and Please for the love of god study how a head is shaped! (http://www.bakaneko.com/howto/computer/3d/head/index.html)


The side on one looks really good, but Links face is too wide in the front on one.

[Kiggles]

It is also crooked. Make judicious use of that T-square, man. Also, make sure each orthoscopic view agrees with eachother. Considering the front and side, it suggests link's ears angle backward, but that isn't what the top view communicates. :)

[eddiethegreat]

It is also crooked. Make judicious use of that T-square, man. Also, make sure each orthoscopic view agrees with eachother. Considering the front and side, it suggests link's ears angle backward, but that isn't what the top view communicates. :)

I don't think thats too much of a problem, you could just mirror one side of the face to get the basic geometry you need to make a model.

[Mireneye]

Im happy to have something to work from. However, its a bit problematic, beacuse id really like to catch the special 'Link' feel. And neither my more recent try on modelling him, nor your sketches do 'if you excuse me' It looks similar to him, but a bit to far from beeing him, it may have potential to beacome him, give or take a few more houers of work.

[Cybertronic]

Well I do think my front view is a bit "fat" but one thing you all missed in the side view is the jaw and the ear is not properly aligned in acordance to anatomy (Its really bugging me). I also drew it with my left hand with a piece of carboard for a drawing surface while sitting in a chair, so that atributes to the crookedness. I too am not happy with the way it turned out, It is good but not good enough for me. :( The top view, I really didnt want to draw it, and well frankly I didnt belive it to be necissary, especially when it was 3:00 am in the morning. :whistling I do know of a site that has Actual Zelda Manga from Japan... Maybe you can get views from there...

http://www.zelda-infinite.com/files/manga/ (slightly differnt style Link than you are used to though...)

Anyways, theres always a next time and always room for improvement, You may see some more drawings in the future...

[Kiggles]

I don't think thats too much of a problem, you could just mirror one side of the face to get the basic geometry you need to make a model.
Unfortunately, modelling off a skewed image is going to cause all sorts of issues that weren't apparent before. You would need to manipulate the 2D image in some digital imaging software. When you go through all of that trouble, the end result is something you probably should have just redrawin in the first place. ;)

Keep it up, Crybertronic. I'll critique, if you don't mind. Just let me know when to shut-up. No offense in either case. Didn't want to rip into the first one since I figured you spit it out in some degree of frustration. :D

[Cybertronic]

:happy: lol ok! I guess I could draw some more... I didnt think he was actually planning to model off the actual picture.... now that means I need to use rulers and stuff.... grrr! I just figured he was going to use the images to get an idea. Should I go after the style used in the manga? It seems to be better looking IMO than what is in the players guides and the manual.

http://www.zelda-infinite.com/files/manga/viewpage.php?book=book1&chap=7&page=1

[Mollymutt]

The manga images are nice, but they won't be of much help, because you really need a front and side view that match up in size and style to make a proper model.

[Mireneye]

If in case your a free hand modeller with an excellent grasp of a the feel of the character your making. Which I am not.

The girl in the back has a perfect sideview. She would only need a front-view to accompany her.
The Top view is'nt life important, the Top view is used to get the shape right at all sides of the head, usually not always necessary, but it can really ease up the work alot sometimes.

Cheers

[mdtauk]

its not overly large, but these may help

[Gladiac0190]

its not overly large, but these may help
meh, nice find :)

[eddiethegreat]

Nice work mdtauk. If I could make a good enough model I would give it a go but my modelling skills are mediocre.

[Mireneye]

Okey, that half gave me an heart attack of happyness.
That is exactamento what i will need. Look at all that goodness.
And most of all sideview and frontview with all in the right places

Gonna start with it tomorrow. GREAT!!!

[Dejital]

What's wrong with modelling a Link off of the GameCube version?

[eddiethegreat]

You need side and front on pictures to make an accurate model. If you can find those for the GC Link then I'm sure Mireneye would find them helpful.

Anyway, I think that this version of Link would be the best to model off:

http://www.emutalk.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=25930&stc=1&d=1120920916

[Mireneye]

Sorry I havn't worked on it yet. I've been busy with beeing sick... And busy with this lil fellow, which is totally non-zelda related *I know, just so you know where ive been http://81.8.200.147/Bruma6.jpg *

Ill get on it soon.

*BTW Indeed those pictures "All so far, especiallly the one side/front view" are great references, ill put them to good use*