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icepir8
January 27th, 2002, 11:41
Here is a poll for you.

Would you contribute money to pay for a GameCube to be disected so that it could be emulated?

Zero
January 27th, 2002, 15:17
Hell yeah !!!!!! :)

Remote
January 27th, 2002, 17:02
Some moral aspects of emulating a new system exists but considering the time it has taken to reach the beginning of Dreamcast emulation I do not expect the GameCube running on other hardware anytime soon. However I would be willing to pay a small amount of cash, but not through services similar to PayPal, to you for disassembling a GC.

Too bad, the internet boom has passed, a couple of years earlier you could have set up a few ad accounts and let us go frenzy.

2fast4u
January 27th, 2002, 21:50
yes i do :) !
btw: this is my post #100!

CpU MasteR
January 28th, 2002, 12:24
icepir8, The Answer is Obvious... F*CK YEAH! Just like PJ64, I would donate money for a GC Emulator... :)

Quvack
January 28th, 2002, 17:06
Difficult Question...

I mean it'll take ages to RE all the information you need from the GC to be even able to think about an emulator for the system, so I dont think seeing an emulator anytime soon will be a problem... and i think it'd be amazing to see an emulator eventually come out for it.. but if the system is to be emulated, it means that all of the anti-piracy schemes would have to be cracked, which would open the gates up for piracy, and we've seen what thats done before, just look at the Dreamcast :(

If the protection on the GC is cracked by anyone related to the emu scene, Nintendo will go nuts at the whole emulation scene again, and well I doubt it'll be pretty :( ..... and emulating and creating "backups" for emulation so early is just wrong, the systems just a baby really.

So to sum it up, i'd love to eventually see emulators for the system come out, but not for many years... it would be excellent to have documentation available to people about all of the necessary information on the system, but it needs to be done carefully.

And to answer the question if I would pay for the system to be RE'd? um... im not sure really :p

icepir8
January 28th, 2002, 20:15
Originally posted by Quvack
Difficult Question...

I mean it'll take ages to RE all the information you need from the GC to be even able to think about an emulator for the system, so I dont think seeing an emulator anytime soon will be a problem... and i think it'd be amazing to see an emulator eventually come out for it.. but if the system is to be emulated, it means that all of the anti-piracy schemes would have to be cracked, which would open the gates up for piracy, and we've seen what thats done before, just look at the Dreamcast :(
Yes, It won't be easy and it will require a good PC to emulate it. It will take some time for the necessary hardware to be available to support emulation of the GameCube. Ahh… but the challenge!

Originally posted by Quvack
If the protection on the GC is cracked by anyone related to the emu scene, Nintendo will go nuts at the whole emulation scene again, and well I doubt it'll be pretty :( ..... and emulating and creating "backups" for emulation so early is just wrong, the systems just a baby really.
This maybe true. But the rebel in me feels that even if the GameCube was emulated tomorrow, It wouldn't really hurt Nintendo. Nintendo doesn't make money on the system itself, but on the licenses it has with the game developers. If you could put a GameCube disk into your PC and play the game it would acually help Nintendo. (assuming that this was a purchased disk and not a bootleg one.)

Originally posted by Quvack
So to sum it up, i'd love to eventually see emulators for the system come out, but not for many years... it would be excellent to have documentation available to people about all of the necessary information on the system, but it needs to be done carefully.
Yes, lets get started now.:D

Originally posted by Quvack
And to answer the question if I would pay for the system to be RE'd? um... im not sure really :p
I understand your position. This is a "moral decision. You must do as you feel is right.devil:

ps: If enough people are in favor of supporting this I will consider starting on it. I would also feel the the info could be used for "hobby programers" to develope software/games/demos for the GameCube.

pss: I can remember when Japan was the bootleg game source. Any game made by US developers could be bought as Japanese "Knock Off" with in a month of the US release. LOL

Cya,

Icepir8

CpU MasteR
January 29th, 2002, 10:05
Hell, I would like to help.. I anyway I can... I am With you on this GC Emu... :cool:

Martin
January 29th, 2002, 10:38
Icepir8: Let's keep this project underground for a while, aye? :P

Zero
January 30th, 2002, 02:22
I would also like to help with the "GC Project" :)

lightknight
February 7th, 2002, 05:41
besides it was my idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i think the main program should use be like pj64 but more options!!

i want to take part in the emulatore also, like testing it !! and like makeing a gfx plugin, ! i dislike rom dumping the systems games...meaning you will have to have the game cd's to play it. ihave already started a small program which has all ready started , to scan the cd for infor. :D :D so if any 1 wants to join up with me i will start to make up the team list!!!!!!! in a few days!!!:pj64: :pj64: :pj64: :pj64: :pj64: :pj64: :pj64: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Zero
February 7th, 2002, 17:37
As posted above I would love to help with it :)

Remote
February 7th, 2002, 19:38
besides it was my idea

Are we not being a bit too confident here, I am sure people dreamed of GameCube emulation before it was announced to the public. And even if you voiced it before others did, I would not be surprised if a gathering of cunning people are bashing the GameCube media to find a method of transferring the content to another media, i.e DVD-ROM, CD-ROM. Their purpose is not to help nor hinder emulation, their purpose is to make profits larger. When the media has been cracked, and it will be, emulation will recieve a needed, but at the same time unwanted, tap on the shoulder.

Cyberman
February 8th, 2002, 07:07
Light Night.. Umm you didn't have it first.. so.. relax some :)

Secondly I suggest waiting for the right time and learning a bit more about what goes into those systems before wanting to make an emulator. Almost everyone has built on someone elses work in the emulation community, you aren't going to suddenly run out and out of the blue come up with a perfect GC emulator.

You also need media that the computer can read, this is the biggest hurdle and why Nintendo went with custome Mini DVD media.

Cyb

zero0w
February 9th, 2002, 22:14
Would the history of UltraHLE repeat itself?

A GC emulator launched as the GC console becomes popular with some serious (Zelda) title around, just like when UltraHLE was launched around the time Zelda OoT being released in the N64 console.

I am curious, will it require a GeForce3/4 to make the GC emu possible?

Reznor007
February 10th, 2002, 08:26
Originally posted by zero0w
Would the history of UltraHLE repeat itself?

A GC emulator launched as the GC console becomes popular with some serious (Zelda) title around, just like when UltraHLE was launched around the time Zelda OoT being released in the N64 console.

I am curious, will it require a GeForce3/4 to make the GC emu possible?



Basically yes. The graphics chip is on the same level as Geforce4. With a few added extras and no vertex shader.

Eikef7
February 18th, 2002, 10:46
I'de donate a couple bucks

crhylove
February 18th, 2002, 13:20
The xbox is a vastly superior box, with already vastly superior titles (simpson's road rage), and is much closer to many pc's for sale now. This is obviously the next gen emu to work on.

my two cents.

rhy

Doomulation
February 18th, 2002, 17:50
A GC emulator...
Now that would be something. I think I'd try to help out by beta-testing since I like betas personally.
But I don't think I'd want to pay for it... I'm no such guy.
But it's an intresting idea, anyhow!

Cyberman
February 18th, 2002, 20:31
Originally posted by Reznor007


Basically yes. The graphics chip is on the same level as Geforce4. With a few added extras and no vertex shader.

The Geeforce 4 is actually.. a less powerful chipset than the Geeforce 3. A few people at ID left a very long rant about it on a Game Developers forum. They still like Nvidia's drivers etc, they just don't like they misleading numbering system and confusing conventions used for there new chipsets. A GF4 is actually less powerful than a GF3 however, that's the real thing. Marketing perhaps, no idea. <shrugs>

As for emulating a GameCub requiring a powerful card, yep it likely will require a powerful 3d acelerator card, and a few other things as well.

Cyb

FireBone
February 18th, 2002, 21:12
i can be a beta tester :)
i like test new games :)
when start the Project?

Slougi
February 19th, 2002, 00:16
Originally posted by Cyberman


The Geeforce 4 is actually.. a less powerful chipset than the Geeforce 3. A few people at ID left a very long rant about it on a Game Developers forum. They still like Nvidia's drivers etc, they just don't like they misleading numbering system and confusing conventions used for there new chipsets. A GF4 is actually less powerful than a GF3 however, that's the real thing. Marketing perhaps, no idea. <shrugs>

As for emulating a GameCub requiring a powerful card, yep it likely will require a powerful 3d acelerator card, and a few other things as well.

Cyb
That would be the gf4MX, which are just pumped up gf2's. The regular ones (gf4ti 4200-4600) are more powerful than the gf3

Epic64
February 19th, 2002, 21:20
I'm with Quvack on this one. It's way too early for GC emulation although I spose gathering the info is OK ;) . Anyway pc's aren't powerful enough to be able to emulate the hardware just yet.

Kakarot
February 21st, 2002, 09:10
It'd be interesting to see but I really doubt it to be possible on today's computer's and even if it was the framerate would remind me of Mario 64 on my old computer (0.15 FPS) so it wouldn't even be enjoyable. Seriously think about the specs. Take the main cpu for example:it is a 485 Mhz RISC prosessor! Wich means in short multiply that by 1.75 and you get the equivilent performance of a CISC prosessor found in pc's and the Xbox. It's general archetecture and way it handles memory using the TS1 Ram (I think that's what its called) and Dram simply cannot be reproduced on a pc. There so much more but I won't put you all to sleep now (if you aren't already) so I'll stop here. Before I stop. I have to show any Xbox fanboys some numbers that are gonna hurt becaue its the truth.

PS2 = 294 x 1.75 =
XBox = 733 Mhz
GC= 485 x 1.75=

Tell me which is more powerful (cpu). Unless my math is fuzzy I think you'll know too ;)

crhylove
February 21st, 2002, 10:43
the gfx. i mean, there's no comparison. what do you do with xtra cpu power in a console? compile the linux kernel?

i'm not an ms fanboy, i hate ms, but as usual they threw so much money at something that they are dominating the competition. in the end the backlash is going to be phenomenal, but for now, go ahead and buy a gc, and then sell it for 1/4 the price on ebay when you've upgraded to an xbox, or by then an xbox 2 or whatever.

:devil:

Reznor007
February 21st, 2002, 12:06
Originally posted by Kakarot
It'd be interesting to see but I really doubt it to be possible on today's computer's and even if it was the framerate would remind me of Mario 64 on my old computer (0.15 FPS) so it wouldn't even be enjoyable. Seriously think about the specs. Take the main cpu for example:it is a 485 Mhz RISC prosessor! Wich means in short multiply that by 1.75 and you get the equivilent performance of a CISC prosessor found in pc's and the Xbox. It's general archetecture and way it handles memory using the TS1 Ram (I think that's what its called) and Dram simply cannot be reproduced on a pc. There so much more but I won't put you all to sleep now (if you aren't already) so I'll stop here. Before I stop. I have to show any Xbox fanboys some numbers that are gonna hurt becaue its the truth.

PS2 = 294 x 1.75 =
XBox = 733 Mhz
GC= 485 x 1.75=

Tell me which is more powerful (cpu). Unless my math is fuzzy I think you'll know too ;)

PS2 has the most powerful CPU, but because it has no hardware T&L, it drops behind the others. Gamecube is slightly more powerful than Xbox CPU wise.

Kakarot
February 22nd, 2002, 02:09
the gfx. i mean, there's no comparison. what do you do with xtra cpu power in a console? compile the linux kernel?

I've looked at what each can do graphically and they are very equal except each has a good edge over the other in a certain category.

GC Advantage: GC can disply 8 similtaneos textures per object xbox can only do 4 (in hardware)

Xbox Adavntage: Xbox has almost a 100Mhz clock speed advantage in its GPU over the Gamecube.

Now let's not forget the extra cpu power. Correct me if I am wrong but if one really wanted to you could use that extra power to perform calculations in software rather than hardware to make up for that lack of speed in the GPU?
The difference between the Gamecube CPU and Xbox CPU is around an equivalent of 120Mhz so if developers felt like using that extra cpu power to match the Xbox (GPU) they would still have around (equivalent) 20Mhz of clock speed left plus texture displying abilites that are twice as good. If my theory holds true (and I'm pretty sure it does).


PS2 has the most powerful CPU
How so? I do admit it must be more powerful than sony makes it out to be since the games look as good as they do now on that aweful hardware.

Back to emulation of the Gamecube I believe that time is better spent on an Xbox emu rather than a PS2 or GC emu. Since it is more practical for obvious reasons.

Thats all i got to say about that. Whew!

crhylove
February 22nd, 2002, 02:24
seriously, if you're going 2 3rd gen emu, then xbox is the way to go.... reasons:

1. Most popular (and becoming more so).
2. Most like a computer already (nforce is available on many mobo's now.)
3. Allowing people to pirate microsoft is ethical.
4. Screw Microsoft

Ok, i've said my piece. Virtual C++ will come in the mail in the next few days (and i already code a bit, though nothing this ambitious), so let's get started.

crhylove

Reznor007
February 22nd, 2002, 04:28
Originally posted by Kakarot

How so? I do admit it must be more powerful than sony makes it out to be since the games look as good as they do now on that aweful hardware.

The main core of the PS2 CPU is a MIPS R5900, along with 2 powerful vector math units.

The vector units have a ton of math processing power. The combination of the 2 vector units and the MIPS core make it the most powerful CPU out of the new consoles. A good example of the power is that in some games, EA uses 1 of the vector units to encode the game audio into DTS audio format for surround sound. However, on most games, they use both vector units for geometry transformations and special effects(particles etc.), which brings the CPU down to the level of the other consoles. Gamecube and Xbox have geometry transformation support built into their graphic processors, and it frees up the CPU for other game stuff(AI, physics, etc.).

flow``
February 22nd, 2002, 05:28
1. Most popular (and becoming more so).
2. Most like a computer already (nforce is available on many mobo's now.)


heh. **** that

if we based emulation on rule #1, no one would give a **** about emulating older consoles.. in other words - pre-ps2

if we based it on #2, the xbox would be the only candidate [right]? - i lack a lot of info on the newer consoles [plus the fact, i dont really give a hoot about any of them]

anyway.. the big n [or sony or ms] would launch a massive campaign to stop the emu development by whatever means necessary..

crhylove
February 22nd, 2002, 08:49
i was just stating some reasons. not the reasons for coding all emulators ever. those reasons apply for any emulator, things like:

great games,
the challenge,
the revival of a "dead" system,
etc.

well, maybe not the last one.

but i was just saying specifically emuing the xbox would be great over ps2/gc for those reasons listed.

i have more reasons now that i think about it.

linux people hate microsoft, and might join in and help code the thing solely to piss redmond off.

saving all the chinese children slave laborers by circumventing the purchase and therefore sale of many xbox consoles, by being an alternative to the actual console.

blowing the lid off the realm of what's possible with computers, again.

pushing the technology envelope in computers (people will upgrade to successfully emulate the xbox, hell i'm upgrading to run 1964...)

creating a new development community, spurring a new generation of coders and hackers.

getting those ugly green and black boxes out of the living room.

using whatever controller you want, from whatever country (see recent /. article)

there's dozens of other reasons to do this. if i had the money to rip apart an xbox, i'd start working on it right now. someone wanna buy me an xbox to destroy?

:devil: petting zoo?