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Remote
January 26th, 2002, 21:54
I still remember the first time I saw the Nintendo 64 incarnation of Super Mario running on my computer, only a couple of days after UltraHLE was released and disconntinued. It all begun when a friend of mine showed me screenshots of Super Mario 64 running on a PII 300 equipped with a extremely fast, it was back then, VooDoo II.

It caught my atention and even today I am still amazed over how far and how fast teqnology has developed over the last years. After UltraHLE there was a void but since Epsilon and RealityMan showed that it was possible others walked in their fotsteps. A whole slew of Nintendo 64 emus was announced, some quitely passed away while others became more and more advanced.

For a long time Nemu was my emu of choice, it offered high compatibility, good graphics and even better sound. I discovered what other emus had to offer, Corn, TR64. And sometime the past summer rumors started to float around the net about a new emu, which later on was released and became known as Project 64. It had a great impact and during the months, end users, had a chance to influate itīs progress a lot of features was added and compatibility increased by nearly fifty percent, which now lays in the eighty to ninety percent range.

Considering how far Nintendo 64 emulation has progressed the latest years, how much more can it evolve. And have the GC had any impact on how fast it has grown, in terms of graphic quality, stability and compatibility. Project 64, which in my book has made the biggest impact, was released mere months before the japanese GC launch, why? Was it a coincidency, the emu had reached a level the authors felt deserved to be shared amongst users, or was is it a deliberate action to avoid lawsuits from Nintendo, since the Nintendo 64 is getting closer and closer to the end of itīs lifespan.

What more can we expect from Nintendo 64 emulation, where do you see it six months or a year from now. Of course we can only speculate but what games and what features will be supported, which emus will narrow down the list of not supported games to a list you could write in you palm, and still have place for a couple of phone numbers, what games do you think will remain unsupported?

Gacler
January 26th, 2002, 22:51
This is how I see the n64 emulation in 6 months
It will be prety much the same, but emulators will have more compatibility maybe 95-99%, since everyday people is getting best computers, the n64 emulation will be a little bit more commun and maybe more popular, but when more time pass the amount of people in the n64 emulation will decrease, why? well because most of the ppl will get a new gen game console, I already have a GCN and I love smash bross melee, but I was tring out some 'old' n64 games that I like (since I dont have some of them(used them for only 24 hours and then deleted them);) )
well, thats how I see it..

Remote
January 27th, 2002, 02:43
I would like to see a Nintendo 64 emu running on Xbox hardware, of course GC would be nice but I do not think that it is possible yet. Both consoles should be able to run most games without slowdowns. Neither 1964 nor Project 64 could be portable to Xbox since they both lack open source graphic plugins. User specific problems, since the authors are working with a fixed set of components, would be iliminated.

Azimer
January 27th, 2002, 05:00
There is no such things as the 24 hour rule. You can not even download a rom off the internet that you own. That isn't a backup off your original... it's someone elses. That backup clause violates the licensing agreement in Nintendo's manual. Which makes your licenses void if you backup your game. :) Just a lil reminder on the gray area of legality.

Smiff
January 27th, 2002, 08:01
Originally posted by Remote


Considering how far Nintendo 64 emulation has progressed the latest years, how much more can it evolve. And have the GC had any impact on how fast it has grown, in terms of graphic quality, stability and compatibility. Project 64, which in my book has made the biggest impact, was released mere months before the japanese GC launch, why? Was it a coincidency, the emu had reached a level the authors felt deserved to be shared amongst users, or was is it a deliberate action to avoid lawsuits from Nintendo, since the Nintendo 64 is getting closer and closer to the end of itīs lifespan.

Your right, it was not a coincidence, it was planned, but not to avoid legal action, but because Zilmar felt it was immoral to be competing with the real product. Althugh, IMHO the time was needed to get the quality up, it was pretty rough from a user POV even just a few months before 1.0. When I started testing for them it didnt work in Win2k or support the GeForce :D

Zoomer
January 27th, 2002, 13:38
Bring on Super Eagle Mode!!

Zero
January 27th, 2002, 15:38
Super Eagle Mode hmmmmmm :cool:

zero0w
February 9th, 2002, 15:33
Yeah I understand the immoral issue of competing with a real product. Yet PSX emulators faced the same issue, except maybe the fact that they offer (3D) enhancements and did require real copy of the PSX games.

As for Rom backup or 24 hour "rule", I suppose Nintendo will not allow any lattitude for emulation, which I think it's probably expected. It will be interesting to see if their position will change to become more liberal, considering GC is out, and that they are not rushing to stop GBA emulation (which is pretty successful for the moment), yet.

Engeljaeger
February 16th, 2002, 03:35
Hmmm...what is this Super Eagle Mode anyway?:plain:
I only know it from ZSNES (Super Nintendo Emu)...
So isnīt that just for 2D-Graphics? ???

crhylove
February 18th, 2002, 13:48
isn't that just like anti aliasing? lot's of people can do that automatically with their kick ass geforce cards.

:devil:

pj64er
February 19th, 2002, 02:53
its not anti-alias. from what ive read, its like an algorithm that ups the resolution (and smooths it) of a 2D pic. personally, i perfer the 2xSai...it just looks smoother.

and no, i dont see the relation between super eagle and n64 either.

Azimer
February 19th, 2002, 07:57
What it is... is something like bilinear or trilinear filtering. For example... take two data points and average them to make a 3rd in between them. That is oversimplifying the complexity of bilinear or trilinear, but you get the idea.

crhylove
February 19th, 2002, 13:12
i love you guys.

ah, screw you guys.

hey not to totally shift gears, but there are some bright minds in here, so give this a read, and put in your 2 cents. It's about the scalability of p2p networks, and includes mail between myself and the author of gnucleus (what i regard as the best p2p solution currently available).

(start at the bottom and read up for accurate linearity).

This is beginning to sound like a good ask slashdot question... i'll be right back... :)

But i think it's in the Host Cache system and node connection area. obviously the download stuff would remain untouched, as well as the gui, etc. let me reread that article, post the question on /. (if they show it), and get back to you... also i'll send mail to my geek friends.

rhy

----- Original Message -----
From: John Marshall
To: 'rhY'
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:56 PM
Subject: RE: john, i thought this article would interest you, if you haven't seen it yet.


Where could I use the formulas in the first place, could you describe to me the advantage you see in using them. I can appy them if you show me where.



- John



-----Original Message-----
From: rhY [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 3:22 PM
To: John Marshall
Subject: Re: john, i thought this article would interest you, if you haven't seen it yet.

maybe as a plugin, now that gnucleus has a plugin system... u can use either the original node search/connect window, or the new plugin that just uses the new hyper cube formulas. i rock at math, but i'm not a very 733+ coder... lol Me and all my friends/family use gnucleus, maybe i can find somebody with the programming skills necessary. I'm kind of working on a massive 3d project right now though, so that'll be a tall order for me atm. I think that definitely increasing the scalability of gnucleus would be hot. I have the feeling that i'm not connected to all gnucleus members when i log on usually... of course i never have the node connect thing up to 20 nodes either... lol... anyway, i will definitely test this plugin out and give feedback if somebody wants to start some code, but i think it may be beyond me.

rhy



----- Original Message -----

From: John Marshall

To: 'rhY'

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:03 PM

Subject: RE: john, i thought this article would interest you, if you haven't seen it yet.

I saw this on Slashdot, I’m not that math orientated so I find it hard to understand. I read some of the reviews of it in the comment section on Slashdot, looks interesting if I could make some sense of it.

I do a lot of mapping research of gnutella, and to make a map that is understandable it would have to be in multi-dimensions, gnutella is way to interwoven to be viewed in 3d. Thanks for the link, have any ideas on how I can apply this, might be a cool project to do some research on.

- John Marshall

-----Original Message-----
From: rhY [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: john, i thought this article would interest you, if you haven't seen it yet.

http://www.perfdynamics.com/Papers/Gnews.html

it's on the scalability of p2p networks, and i think represents a fundamentally better situation in the medium term for gnutella based systems. Let me know what u think, or don't, i know you're a busy guy.



rhy

Azimer
February 19th, 2002, 13:31
<SARCASM>
So the Future of N64 emulation is p2p ?? :!!!:
</SARCASM>

Smiff
February 19th, 2002, 14:25
get with it, azimer. the future of N64 emulation is with NES emulation.

crhylove
February 19th, 2002, 16:35
<deadpan> uh, yeah, fce ultra needs a good glide plugin </deadpan>

dave?

lol

Engeljaeger
February 19th, 2002, 19:45
Uuuuuuuuuuuhm....??? ...I think all this is just too much for me:blush:




Nevermind....:D

jaffa_sinas
February 21st, 2002, 01:50
back to future of n64 emulation

i think this has been a wonderful time. i've been using these emulators cuz my n64 broke and I couldn't fix it.. so some cousin who was in this emulating thing copied my cartridge's for me..
this n64 emulation i think has reached it's peak like last year. the makers of the best emu (pj 64) decided to "stop".. ;) but this hasn't been a bad thing though becuz a lot of people have still been updating (like smiff) and all the others for support etc etc
But I don't see a big future for this whole n64 emulation (no offence)
I think it's time to start working on another console.. maybe the x-box or ps2 or gamecube.. i dunno
i mean look at the n64; first debuted in 1996 (i think??? )
that's like 6 years ago.. in that time we had the dreamcast, ps2, gamecube and now the xbox.. but what was the best gamingthingy; the pc!!
the best games on the n64 work (like zelda) and i don't think the n64 will ever be 100% emulated.. it's becuz of the cartridge's i think.. so if u really wanna play that special game; go to ebay or so and buy a second hand n64 couple of games and youre off!
(this is not meant to discourage the n64 emus!!!!)
but i just think it's time to begin a new emulation 'age' .. let's begin emulating the xbox, or gamecube or even the ps2..
i still have 1 year before graduating and i think there's still time to learn programming :D maybe in about a few years i have my own xbox or gamecube emu :D :D :D

i just want to hear what other people think...

about the n64 emu's:
:pj64: :pj64:
:1964: :nemu: :apollo: (apollo don't stop continue; i think youre in to sometinh big; maybe even a 100% n64 emulator ;) )
:pj64: :pj64: :pj64: :pj64:

(hope i don't get some angry replies :D )

crhylove
February 21st, 2002, 02:33
first off, some of the best n64 games have yet to be emu'd, but i think all will eventually be emu, there's just 2 much momentum to stop it. so you're dead wrong there, buddy, but as for what system to emu next, there is no ? in my mind that the xbox is the one to do. ps2 and gamecube have totally lame titles compared to the xbox, and don't even get me started on the gfx, etc. and as all nintendo fans know, it's the titles that make the console, and this is where the xbox shines. DOA 3, simpson's road rage, halo, and project gotham are all superior to their ps2/gamecube counter parts, and the ps2 was out a year earlier!!

so anyone who thinks the cube or ps2 will win this war is delusional. nintendo should stick with low end handhelds, that's the only place it'll stay alive in the future, unless they start putting out titles again, which they might, but the xbox already has too much momentum anyway. simpson's road rage is worth it's weight in game cube romz, no doubt about it.

crhylove

pj64er
February 21st, 2002, 02:46
jaffa, all other emulated consoles (with exception of ps and saturn) hav been cartridge based. that has not stopped emu-authors from emulating them (look at zsnes...95+% compat!). and i think u hav totally underestimated the difficulty of making a (good and original) emu.



crhylove, simpson's road rage for xbox does hav a equal on GC...simpson's road rage(GC)! also, gotham is not superior to its ps2 counterpart, GT3. that is just plainly not true. DOA3 is a prettier DOA2, a better counterpart can be found on DC (SoulCalibur). and halo...ur right. Xbox is not head and shoulders above the comepetion like u think, i think ur the one who is delusional.

jaffa_sinas
February 21st, 2002, 18:29
k. if was wrong about that whole cartridge thingy. :blush:

well about the xbox; yep i think it's the next thing 2 be emulated;
ps2?? dunno.. ngc: mini dvd's; so that's gonna be hard ???

and yes i underestimated that coding a n64 emulastor.. damn i dunno **** about coding.. i'm gonna start with c++ soon :D

just wanted to get that of my mind

Azimer
February 21st, 2002, 20:24
If someone puts enough time and mustered into it... I feel N64 can be emulated 100%. This is more so for N64 then for any previous console. Why? Because most games use some sort of an API (N64 OS + Some Company API for instance). These high level extractions make it easy for hacking out one game makes many others work as well. I don't feel our current approach will yield 100% compatibility... mostly because progress is too slow and too isolated... not to mention everyone is reinventing the wheel *looks at all the new graphics dlls* *looks at people worrying about speed and not compat.* That is just my opinion and not that of Emulation64. :)

flow``
February 21st, 2002, 23:02
jaffa, all other emulated consoles (with exception of ps and saturn) hav been cartridge based. that has not stopped emu-authors from emulating them (look at zsnes...95+% compat!). and i think u hav totally underestimated the difficulty of making a (good and original) emu.

You missed a few cd-only consoles/addons

jaguar, phillips cdi-i, 3do, 32x.. and a few others around that era

Azimer: I agree with you fully =p

sk8bloke22
February 21st, 2002, 23:03
Originally posted by crhylove
[B
so anyone who thinks the cube or ps2 will win this war is delusional. nintendo should stick with low end handhelds, that's the only place it'll stay alive in the future, unless they start putting out titles again, which they might, but the xbox already has too much momentum anyway. simpson's road rage is worth it's weight in game cube romz, no doubt about it.

crhylove [/B]

omg u r so wrong. for starters xbox really isnt that good. i would much rather hav a ps2 or gc (preferabbly both) than an xbox.

ps2 has so many decent titles; gta3, state of emergency, devil may cry, jak and daxter, gt3, rez, pro evolution soccer...soooo many....virtua fighter 4 is a million times better than doa3...doa3 gets so dry when the gfx begin to wear off of u, virtua fighter 4 is just so damn playable.

i cant talk too much about the cube as ive only played a few games (monkey ball, waverace, luigi's mansion) - but they also seem good.

xbox's only real highlights for me is halo, which is amazing. the xbox really isnt that much better than the other consoles when u take away its fancy gfx. thats my opinion....sorry to be off topic.

pj64er
February 22nd, 2002, 04:00
Originally posted by flow``


You missed a few cd-only consoles/addons

jaguar, phillips cdi-i, 3do, 32x.. and a few others around that era

Azimer: I agree with you fully =p

i was hoping no one will catch me on that :p

but i proved my point.

flow``
February 22nd, 2002, 04:31
Here are some others..

3DO
CD32
CDI
CDTV
FM Towns
Jaguar CD
MegaCD
Neo Geo CD
PC Engine
PC-FX
Playdia
Saturn

that should about cover it =)

sk8bloke22
February 22nd, 2002, 04:36
wat the hek was a playdia and FM town?????

i think u missed one, do u remember there was a mac console released only in japan (it may not hav been released) i cant remember wat it was called, but i swear it existed...unless i dreamed or something.

zero0w
February 22nd, 2002, 04:49
Originally posted by Azimer
If someone puts enough time and mustered into it... I feel N64 can be emulated 100%. This is more so for N64 then for any previous console. Why? Because most games use some sort of an API (N64 OS + Some Company API for instance). These high level extractions make it easy for hacking out one game makes many others work as well.

Agree with you Azimer.

I still think the original approach by Epsilon and Reality Man in coding UltraHLE by using high level API emulation is the most effective (NOT to undermine the effort of all N64 emu coders out there however). I played thru Zelda64 with UltraHLE and there's almost no slowdown at any place at all (except near the end), with constant and satisfactory framrates in a Celeron 450 system. Corn also performs very well though with just few supported games. As such I think perfect N64 emulation is possible but the effort and time to be spent on coding and testing it will be great and long.