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[Pumster]

Hey.
I haven't seen any other topics related to this, so I thought it was worth asking. Will future releases of Chankast offer a "Plug-in" system for various components, such as Graphics and Sound? (For example, emualtors like "Project 64" or "ePSXe" utilize "Plug-in" systems.)

[Samus]

From what i've read here before, i believe that is the plan.

[MasterPhW]

How you see there is already support for input plugin, so it will be just a question of time till there's support for other plugin related thing, like sound and GFX.

[TalynOne]

Oh god I would hate for them to have a sound & GFX plugin system. It's best to just work on one implementation and get it work as universally and as good as possible.

I would hate for Dreamcast emulation to end up like N64 emulation where you have to figure out the right black magic combination for a particular game on a particular video card on a particular os on a particular emulator with particlar plugin settings.

In my opinion all N64 and PSX emulation is still currently worse than Chankfast alpha because of the stupid plugin system.

[mezkal]

Talyn, please don't be insulted, but you're speaking with a lot ignorance. The reason for a plugin system is that the N64 emu authors didn't think that they should have to write for ALL screen drawing types. This is because the N64 being a Cartridge based system could have its extensibility increased with onboard RAM, maths co processors and other such extensions to its feature set. Therefore plugins could be written that could take into account such extensions and emulate them too.

Your opinion, while valid (as is everyones), is based on a fundemental misunderstanding of emulation in general. The PSE-Pro plugins (such as those that epsxe uses) were developed to offer further extension towards modern screen drawing functions, such as filtered textures and 32bit display. They, in no way, have lessened the emulators compatibility at all. Infact, those games that don't work with certain display plugins fail to do so due to custom screen drawing and/or custom texture management.

Either way, the choice of plugin implementation was decided by the devs. Ignorant "users" really don't get a look in. I'm sorry you feel that emulation should be plug and play. It isn't. The more complex the host system, the more complicated its emulation will be.

Maybe your time could be better spent researching your plugins and updating them rather then complaining that you'll have some work to do to play DC games on your system.

Cheers,

mezkal

[TalynOne]

The SNES is also a cartridge system and ZSNES and Snes9x handle the additional chips that show up on some games (Starfox, Yoshi's Island) just fine without a plugin system.

It would make more more sense to make a plugin system that is only for implementing features outside the base set of the system being emulated. Like having a CPU feature plugin where you could have multiple CPU plugins that augment the base CPU subsystem and are used to support the extra features a game developer may have put into a game.

Emulation can and should be plug and play, like MAME, CPS1/CPS2, Neo Geo, NES, SNES, Genesis, and countless others.

I can see maybe a need for a different graphics renderer for software and OpenGL/DirectX rendering for the PSX, but do we really need 20 different kinds of OpenGL/DirectX plugins?

I'm a developer myself (not emulation) and just because a developer implements a feature or idea doesn't mean it's a good one.

And I can figure out everything just fine, I haven't been able not to get something to work that someone else has.

Those who have delved into N64/PSX emulation know that none of the plugins are quite right and it would be best if certain plugin features were in other plugins and you have to deal with bullshit where certain things just break over time like Radeon support and some games require you to freaking change the settings in the middle of the game to get it to work right. I can't think of any game that's perfectly emulated on the N64 or PSX, some are certainly playable or have really minor glitches, but none are completely graphically correct. I would say actually that the original UltraHLE emulated Mario Kart 64 better than any modern emulator can.

[mezkal]

Talyn I'm sorry but now you're annoying me. The SNES system was drastically simpler machine when compared with the N64. That and the docs had been out some time - so there was a wealth more research available by the time ZSNES and other emus were being finalised. That said, you can't be much of 'emu' fan if you make a stupid comment like that. SNES emulation was buggy as all hell back in the day - I should know I beta tested a few. Ask any of the old timers (hehe) on here. Sheesh.

What annoys about your post is that you comment on the state of plugins and their variety. Stop bitching! If something doesn't work as you like it - fix it. Programmer my ass. You sound like a user and a none to informed one I might add.

Just because a noob whinges should we listen? I say no.

Cheers,

mezkal

[TalynOne]

I'm trying to have a civil discussion, please don't name call. If you have an argument then make it. There's no reason for personal attacks. If you want to know when I actually tried my first SNES emulator it was probably back when the main operating system on my computer was DOS 3.3 (or 5.0, I forget).

[Jakob]

eh? And here I was thinking that the reason for the zilmar spec plugin system was so that each emulator could take advantage of the graphics/sound/input plugins done for every other N64 emu. Unfortunately, not every plugin out there is as good as every other, but neither is every cpu core.

Honestly, I seriously doubt things would be better if there wasn't a plugin system, In all likelihood, fewer games would work so well becuase there would not be the ability to mix and match.

[cooliscool]

I agree with Mezkal on this one.. you aked for everything you got (if not more).. When it comes to emulation, ignorance is not bliss. :whistling

[Nightmare]

It would make more more sense to make a plugin system that is only for implementing features outside the base set of the system being emulated. Like having a CPU feature plugin where you could have multiple CPU plugins that augment the base CPU subsystem and are used to support the extra features a game developer may have put into a game.

??? heu... i think that all cpu have the same instructions set (except for mmx,sse,sse2 but since the authors said we need sse, we know what we need), so i don't see why a plugin for that ???

[mezkal]

I'm trying to have a civil discussion, please don't name call. If you have an argument then make it. There's no reason for personal attacks. If you want to know when I actually tried my first SNES emulator it was probably back when the main operating system on my computer was DOS 3.3 (or 5.0, I forget).

Name call? I'm sorry since when was noob a rude name?

DOS? DOS?! Dude god please stop. There were no such things as SNES emus back in the DOS 5.0 days, let alone DOS 3.3. SNES emus started around '95/96. They came about as a result the Wildcard (and other) cartridge-backup units. These units worked by emulating the cartridge address space. Documentation for the SNES stemmed from there. Emulation stemmed from the Documentation.

Quoting BS is not going to impress me.

Move along, this isn't the emulation community you're looking for.

Cheers,

mezkal

[TalynOne]

??? heu... i think that all cpu have the same instructions set (except for mmx,sse,sse2 but since the authors said we need sse, we know what we need), so i don't see why a plugin for that ???

I was refering to a game that might need a plugin because it has an additional chip/feature that needs to be emulated.

[TalynOne]

Name call? I'm sorry since when was noob a rude name?

DOS? DOS?! Dude god please stop. There were no such things as SNES emus back in the DOS 5.0 days, let alone DOS 3.3. SNES emus started around '95/96. They came about as a result the Wildcard (and other) cartridge-backup units. These units worked by emulating the cartridge address space. Documentation for the SNES stemmed from there. Emulation stemmed from the Documentation.

Quoting BS is not going to impress me.

Move along, this isn't the emulation community you're looking for.

Cheers,

mezkal

That could be right, the first SNES emulator I tried was ESNES/NLKSNES (when they first came out), it was a while ago, my memory isn't so good on the exact year.

Edit: Oh, and I love you too.

[mezkal]

Sorry to say it Talyn, but you sound like every other noob I've met. You see I'm 31, I've been around. DOS 3.3 (which I doubt you know much about) was NEW to me '88. Hell I started on a PC-XT compatible with a Green monochrome scree, 4 colour CGA card and twin 5.25" drives. With DOS 3.0. This is before most ppl had hard drives. DOS 3.3 added hard disk support (up to 20MByte). So please just admit that you're a noob and we can move on. Otherwise I'll either have to ignore you or really go to town. I'd rather do neither.

Cheers,

mezkal

[Nightmare]

I was refering to a game that might need a plugin because it has an additional chip/feature that needs to be emulated.

but there is nothing else, just the sh4 in a dreamcast... how a game could be use an additionnal chip/feature ???

[TalynOne]

I'm 25. But I started using a computer when I was young. My first PC based computer was an 8088 (10 MHZ turbo) PC-XT system with DOS 3.3 and a CGA monitor (though a 80386 was the best machine you could get at the time, my family couldn't afford it). I used Dos 3.3 for a long time, I remember reading the DOS manual from front to back. I hated CGA it supported the ugliest colors imaginable (literally CMYK).

Try again mezkal. Though you say you're 31 you speak like a 14 year old l33t hacker d00d.

[TalynOne]

but there is nothing else, just the sh4 in a dreamcast... how a game could be use an additionnal chip/feature ???

This statement applies to the N64. You're right the Dreamcast is a CD based system so it couldn't have additional chips on the game itself.

[Trotterwatch]

Mezkal et al, stop the lame pissing match and just ignore each other ;) lol

[TalynOne]

Mezkal et al, stop the lame pissing match and just ignore each other ;) lol

You're right Trotterwatch I'm ignoring this thread from now on. I should get back to grading these programming projects. God I hate teaching summer session, assignments are due like every 4 days.

[mezkal]

I'm 25. But I started using a computer when I was young. My first PC based computer was an 8088 (10 MHZ turbo) PC-XT system with DOS 3.3 and a CGA monitor (though a 80386 was the best machine you could get at the time, my family couldn't afford it). I used Dos 3.3 for a long time, I remember reading the DOS manual from front to back. I hated CGA it supported the ugliest colors imaginable (literally CMYK).

Try again mezkal.

Once again you quote BS. CGA was never CMYK. Do you even know what K stands for? It's KELVIN!! A temperature Measurement standard that Lithographers (screen printers) used to use to judge the difference between one colour in the same range (say a bunch of reds of varying inensity) and another. Sure the rest of the colours were there Cyan, Magenta and Yellow but that in no way made it CMYK which is used by graphics designers (yes I've been one of those too) for colour separation (the art of breaking a designed page into its root colour variants to be primed for printing).

I think its wonderful that you read a manual. No really. Maybe you might try reading some other forms of instruction. Like this one :-

STOP LYING.

Cheers,

mezkal

PS : Trotterwatch. Sorry for that. I posted this after before your post. Yes I'll do exactly that :)

[spaffdog]

mezkal i think i love u, lol

pc-xt's rocked. i used to have an 8088 viglin built pc-xt greenscreen text only monitor beast

ah text only monitors, lovely, cant beat em.. :)

hmm what else have i had. an original ps/2 ibm with cga monochrome.. wicked stuff

uhmm.. i know i've had an 8086 somewhere along the lines...
and i'm ashamed to admit i had an apple II...
anyway's before i remember eery singlecomputer i've had...

what was the point? ah yeah.. plugins.

they're great. look at epsxe (VERY compatible) with it's ps-emu pro style plugins.. then compare it to bleem and it's built in graphics. no disrespect to the bleem guys.. but plugins proved to be the better option in the long run.. then again.. who's knows. the evil sony monster shut them down.

give it a go. i mean at the end of the day.. if u don't like plugins. just use the original chanka graphics and pretend no others exist. everyones happy

[holymoz]

I know that plugin-based emulators have much more features and performance than single exe based, every plugin take care of one of the system machine making the computational work of the main engine very light.
I think all emulators of all modern consoles should has this system, the old-console emulators like zsnes or other doesn't need plugins, at least on modern pcs.

I play on epsxe and is the only modern emulator that spit out a graphic quality better than the original psx on tv, the difficult part is to search which plugin is good for the own pc but when everyone found its own configuration this will work good for all the games.

[spaffdog]

part is to search which plugin is good for the own pc but when everyone found its own configuration this will work good for all the games.

exactly. it makes life easier. once you've got the best plugin for your system then it's fine.

we wouldn't have the nvidia problems etc. cos there would no doubt be a plugin that wrks better with nvidia than ati and visa versa.

[-indecisive-]

ah, i wish i was around for the first snes emulators back 95. back then i was 9 and i didn't know anything about computers and such..now i can thank emulators for introducing me to the technical aspects of pcs and stuff.

[Ex0skelet0r]

mezkal you are 31 years old?what is your job?
i don't know where i will be in my 31 year of my life.
I hope i will still seat in front of a computer :)
i am 21 years old but i'm learning fast

(Note: if the code of an emulator was perfect then nothing more is important,only a start button, close button maybe and some configurations about the controls. NOTHING MORE)

[WhiteX]

Hey, Talydude, go write a PNP Xbox, Ps2 Emu Combo 2000, then you can come here to flame people that is working to help other people have some fun in their lives.
You are right emulation is PNP, you go buy a Console, plug to your tv set and play!
Mods, if you wanna ban me for this, it is OK, but i had enough!

[Weyland]

A recurring theme on this board seems to be that people without any knowledge of code or architecture of either the Dreamcast or XP/x86 machines, start strange rumours and fantasies about how emulators should work or what would make them run better (regulars excluded, there's some knowledgeable people here too, thank god)

RTFM please

[mezkal]

but there is nothing else, just the sh4 in a dreamcast... how a game could be use an additionnal chip/feature ???

The most unfortunately named SEAMAN uses a USB connected Electret Microphone. Like all DC accessories it has chips that protect it from cross-regional use (just like DVDs). These security chips would need to be hacked/kludged/emulated in order to play SEAMAN.

The same goes for the SEGA Lightgun and Samba de Amigo Marracas.

My Euro DC blocks me from using a Japanese Sega Lightgun with any Lightgun Compatible game. So far I haven't been able to overcome this hurdle.

I think plugins for these would be overkill though.