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View Full Version : Feature Request: Blocking of new releases.



deibit
June 5th, 2004, 14:11
It would be nice to see in the next version a blocking of new releases (less than two years old) or of systems that are currently comercialy active (Naomi, Atomiswave..). More or less in the same way other emulators do (MAME, Nebula...)

As the Chankast manifesto says:

"We haven't done this emulator to promote piracy, it's a tribute to the great DC."

I hope this words doesnt get lost in the wind..

As we all know its very easy to get famous and popular by developing warez tools but these are hard times for being respected by having strong principles.

I hope that Chankast doesnt choose the wrong way.

mike20599
June 5th, 2004, 14:16
Where can I get Chankast Loader to unlock new Naomi/Atomiswave games plz. DBZ out.

Davv13
June 5th, 2004, 14:41
DC is dead 4 years now.Go away with this.Don't you think these guys have better things to do than trying to block a couple of shooters that I've played once or twice and never want to play again.This emu is what I was looking for to replay my fighters with better graphics.

steamover
June 5th, 2004, 14:50
well, i think it's good for game developers and the emu itself (less illegal) to limit the arcade functionality...i think emulating at least 2 year old games will be nice (well, when it works... :happy: ...we're too fast but it's the beginning..)

Anyways someone will crack/make a loader for bypass it...as always.

R00ster
June 5th, 2004, 16:18
LoL.
I dont think that dreacast games are selled in a big way anymore.

posty_2k3
June 5th, 2004, 16:20
He's talking about the Naomi emulation tht will be in future versions of Chanka. Naomi is an arcade system that many games at arcades still use today. And they're just saying that it should block the newer games for it to prevent a lot of piracy of the newer games.

Evrain
June 5th, 2004, 16:40
Hmmmmm... where have I heard all this stuff?
*cough cough Metal Slug 5 coff coff*
Seriously, do you really think a lock is gonna solve everything? Sure, we already saw it with MAME and Kawaks: a few loaders, some people knowing how to put together a driver.c and voilą. The game is served. Locks can be forced (and code can be modified) by their own nature, it would be futile.
And on a personal note, some authors of "great principles" are playing right now games we will probably never seen. Who? Sure I am not gonna tell you Razoola is playing progear right now, no way...
Okay okay, I'll go take my medicine
Evrain

MasterPhW
June 5th, 2004, 16:55
A feature request isn't allowed, pll please read the rules!
And the naomi emulation is just in the near future, so why doing a feature request for some things aren't added yet?

deibit
June 5th, 2004, 16:59
A feature request isn't allowed, pll please read the rules!

I changed the title (but I cant change the main title), sorry for the forum rules break.

Now i dont make a feature request but a moral request.

steamover
June 5th, 2004, 18:31
Seriously, do you really think a lock is gonna solve everything?
i said that someone will crack it.... but at least, emu authors are inside 'legality', if you download a patch for play latest games then you're who is breaking the law, not the emu authors.

MAME is open-source, so it's evidently that any kid can modify code and bypass all protections. But OFFICIAL mame doesn't support or condone the use of these new games, so at least if Playmore wants to sue someone, will sue crackers/rom releasers, not the MAME team. Same can applied to Chankast and **future** naomi emulation


some authors of "great principles" are playing right now games we will probably never seen
Well, that happened always (icarus for instance), and still will be happening. I think it's normal and they can do the best for them or the 'product'. Soon or later things are released, so it's a matter of time. And, well, we've thousands of games to play, so if you can't play (on PC) sure there is another way to play it :paperbag:

I think here it's the eternal problem about emulation (and what's qualified as 'abandonware')... If we don't establish a limit between legal or ilegal, or scene rules, then soon or later we'll be attacked by game developers and heavy prosecuted by law, as PC Games scene or MP3. So it's better to respect them (devs, companies) and they'll (probably) respect us :saint:..
...We have a dozen of games to gain and thousands to loose.

TheGuru
June 5th, 2004, 18:53
Sure I am not gonna tell you Razoola is playing progear right now, no way...
Evrain

Raz can't play ProGear. Well, not in MAME yet anyway. It's not dumped and it uses surface mounted ROMs which means only about 2 people can dump it (me and someone else). So if there is a dump of it and emulation, you'll probably read about it first on my site :-)

Guru

jdsony
June 5th, 2004, 23:56
I got a feature request. How about chankast is also released for DOS so the less fortunate people in poor countries can also play all the newly released games. Another good idea would be to add a 24/7 technical support team to answer phone calls regarding problems with the emulator and feature requests.

MasterPhW
June 6th, 2004, 10:14
I got a feature request. How about chankast is also released for DOS so the less fortunate people in poor countries can also play all the newly released games. Another good idea would be to add a 24/7 technical support team to answer phone calls regarding problems with the emulator and feature requests.
Some kind of stupid gag?
Emulation is for all ppl who releases emus and more just a hobby, why they should have a 24/7 phone service? And I posted it some posts before: NO Feature REQUESTS look at the board rules! You would be annoyed if someone bombs you with feature requests, wouldn't you? It was just a little fault of deibit to do a feature request and just to save the legally, and he allready had said sorry for this but I don't know why you now making a new one?

Evrain
June 6th, 2004, 10:35
Raz can't play ProGear. Well, not in MAME yet anyway. It's not dumped and it uses surface mounted ROMs which means only about 2 people can dump it (me and someone else). So if there is a dump of it and emulation, you'll probably read about it first on my site :-)

Guru

Guru, you are one of the people I learned to respect the most in the emu scene since I started working in it, however I think you missed a "passage".
Taken from CPS2emu:


Xacrow has finished a complete dump of this title, with the SIMM chips now included! I updated our Game List with this awesome info.

Not playable in MAME, but on Kawaks yes for sure :P
And about warez/non warez, this discussion is going nowere else than the hundreds of other similar topics. IMHO emulators must keep with their initial purpose of being archives of a piece of our past (I cried while playing again TumblePop with my friends ;) ), and I don't care what's the release date of the games: their memory mustn't be lost. Haze lately inserted "placeholders" for CPS3 games, and I approve what he did, since although unplayable, they are there to be remembered. And that's everything MAME is about I guess.
Evrain

jdsony
June 6th, 2004, 23:50
Some kind of stupid gag?
Emulation is for all ppl who releases emus and more just a hobby, why they should have a 24/7 phone service? And I posted it some posts before: NO Feature REQUESTS look at the board rules! You would be annoyed if someone bombs you with feature requests, wouldn't you? It was just a little fault of deibit to do a feature request and just to save the legally, and he allready had said sorry for this but I don't know why you now making a new one?

I was actually joking. I don't think that's a good idea at all.


Haze lately inserted "placeholders" for CPS3 games, and I approve what he did, since although unplayable, they are there to be remembered. And that's everything MAME is about I guess.
Evrain

That's one of the reason's I pretty much stopped keeping my Mame and games up to date. Mame has become more of a collection than an emulator. I know they say it's about preservation but preservation for what? So they can be remembered? Games are meant to be played there is really no other use for them, I'm not going to frame them and put them on my wall so I can remember them.

TheFreeman
June 7th, 2004, 00:22
It would be nice to see in the next version a blocking of new releases (less than two years old) or of systems that are currently comercialy active (Naomi, Atomiswave..). More or less in the same way other emulators do (MAME, Nebula...)

As the Chankast manifesto says:

"We haven't done this emulator to promote piracy, it's a tribute to the great DC."

I hope this words doesnt get lost in the wind..

As we all know its very easy to get famous and popular by developing warez tools but these are hard times for being respected by having strong principles.

I hope that Chankast doesnt choose the wrong way.

Is this guy *** or what? Go suck Barbara Streissand's nipples, you goody toosh mofo

mike20599
June 7th, 2004, 02:47
Locking **** is stupid. End of discussion.

Arakon
June 7th, 2004, 02:59
such a lock will simply encourage people to hack the emu to remove the lock again. as it has always been.

Keith
June 7th, 2004, 06:16
Is this guy *** or what? Go suck Barbara Streissand's nipples, you goody toosh mofo
Lets cool it with the insults and stick to the topic and be respectable.

Clessy
June 7th, 2004, 06:49
Seriously you extremist anti priacy people are psycho. Emulation has never been about priating games. I mean sure most people do use if for that but do you think the people who honestly make these emu's made it to priate games? Hell they have to buy 90% of the games and the hardware to begin with. I mean they're nothing for them to priate once they've emulated and dumped all the roms. Its about leaving backups of files for future generation of people who dont have the means to backup files themselves. I mean how many of you would know about all these wonderfull Japanese RPG for snes if dumpers wouldnt of released them? To block out Naomi or Atomiswave now for the reason of them being "new" is pointless. If you like they game your gonna buy it more than likly. I have tons of GBA roms and mostly play them but since they're hardly any good GBA games i've bought every single rom i own too. They're cart counterparts that is. Another thing are you a arcade vendor? Do you buy arcade boards? No didnt think so would Sammy be loosing a sell from you by you play Atomiswave on your PC, doubt very doubtfull. Your gonna say they're loosing money per game well actually they're not they dont make money off of the credits only the stores do.

jdsony
June 7th, 2004, 09:07
Call it what you want but the bigger and more coverage it gets, the more emulation will become a huge issue like the whole movie/music industry. Locking games out won't stop people from getting past the lockout to play the games but it's not a completely bad idea. I'm not against piracy but there is a point where too much publicity will cause a backlash. When the average Joe starts playing brand new games in his own home for free the emu authors start getting harrassed by the game companies and possibly may even quit because of it. I'm sure people who have been visiting emutalk for a while have noticed the huge influx of new people since the Chankast release. It's also interesting that there are at least 60 people in the Chankast forum everytime I enter and tonight there was well over 100. I just think it's good when emu authors tread carefully, it's better for them which inturn is also better for us.

Evrain
June 7th, 2004, 10:13
jdsony, I understand your point of view, however I was not referring to MAME + ROMsets (ROM, what an offensive word for games), but just to mame itself. A few generations have grown while seeing players beat the crap out of each others on SF machines, or trying to dodge bullets in Cave games: as I said a few posts ago, I was happy to revive part of my youth with my friends while playing TumblePop and laughing about the past. It's not emulation or "framing them and putting them on the wall": is just keeping memory of what was a piece of past experiences. Maybe in 25 years someone will cry seeing Metal Slug 6 on an emulator :D
Evrain

mike20599
June 7th, 2004, 14:15
The only thing that should be locked is this thread.

Evrain
June 7th, 2004, 14:19
maybe, since we are going nowhere. But it's still nice to hear the opinions of everyone.
Evrain

mezkal
June 7th, 2004, 14:33
deibit's right.

IF ppl are gonna hack the blocks on the later releases of Chankast - let em. IF they end up getting sued its thier OWN fault. Furthermore the point her is that we want DC Emulation and we want it NOW. MAME's approach means that Naomi 1/2/Hikaru/Atomiswave will be emulated eventually as they are all ARCADE game platforms and have subsequent game titles to be run. Chankast, I believe, should stay a sole DC emulator, or at least block any Arcade titles younger than 2 years old. This should keep the authors out of the litigous scope of the RIAA ( and yes many arcade games have copyrighted MUSIC soundtracks and FX so WAKE UP!) and other such organisations.

Say what you will about my opinion (as that is all it is) but I would rather have reasons to protect Chankast then let others snipe at it due to reasons of potential illegality.

I realise that DreamCast software is also 100% illegal to copy too but seeing as the console is dead, its market is essentially and furthermore its parent company (who are also close to death too) see it as dead. Somehow I don't see teams of lawyers running to harrass a DC emultion project.

mike20599
June 7th, 2004, 16:59
Lets lock all the games and then nobody can get sued. C'mon people stop with this bull****.

mezkal
June 7th, 2004, 17:41
Lets lock all the games and then nobody can get sued. C'mon people stop with this bull****.

Mike why would you say that? Sure we can go that route but then nobody has any fun. I am merely saying that we should hedge our bets (or at least in terms of the conversation anyway) and try to convince the Chanka dev's to keep within the scope of DC. DC is dead and most of Sega too so why would they bother suing over a dead console? Granted Nintendo did the same but then the NES had only stopped production last year. China still sells NESs by the truckload. How many new DC's are in production??? NONE. Yet there are some new and recent titles running on AtomisWave and Hikaru, not too mention the Virtua Tennis machines that I still see in arcades now. Emulating those for research might be cool, but it certainly my bring the ire of SEGA Hitmaker and/or AM2/3. I personally would rather enjoy thier lack of interest in emulating a dead console then them blocking the webpage and possibly forcing Chanka to stop dead in its production tracks.

my .10c :P

dreamer
June 7th, 2004, 18:02
Mike why would you say that? Sure we can go that route but then nobody has any fun.
i don't quite understand it...but something, somewhere tells me that mike was being sarcastic.<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_203574", true); </SCRIPT>

mike20599
June 7th, 2004, 19:59
If I own an Atomiswave arcade machine and I dump it and decide to play it on Chanka, I have every right. If you download a game and play it on Chanka then YOU are the one breaking the law, not the makers of Chanka. It's like fat people suing McDonalds for making them fat.

jdsony
June 7th, 2004, 20:33
If I own an Atomiswave arcade machine and I dump it and decide to play it on Chanka, I have every right. If you download a game and play it on Chanka then YOU are the one breaking the law, not the makers of Chanka. It's like fat people suing McDonalds for making them fat.

I definitely agree with that but it won't stop people trying. Look at Virtual Game Station the Playstation emulator. Sony took them to court numerous times. I think Connectix won most of the battles but then Sony just bought the emulator and killed it. They were charging for the emulator and Sony is a company more likely to go after that kinda thing so it's not exactly the same issue.

Evrain
June 7th, 2004, 22:34
VGS was a failed experiment for one simple reason: not even the greatest Sony/Sega/Nintendo/Evraincorp can beat an entire community.
Evrain

posty_2k3
June 7th, 2004, 23:04
Do you even know why VGS failed? No, not because sony bought them. It was because they SOLD THE EMULATOR TO USERS. Emulators like this HAVE to be freeware or else the author's CAN get sued/bought. They said this basically "We coded the emulator, so all you people that want to use it, you have to pay us a one time fee to be able to use it." Basically, they were making money for the emulator. Big corps cant sue freeware emulators because no one "owns" the emulator. It's freeware, and they cant sue the devs for anything, and because no one owns it, they can't buy the emulator and shut it down. The only thing that could possibly happen is that users get sued by the big companies because they are caught downloading games they dont own. Get your facts straight.

deibit
June 8th, 2004, 08:22
Seriously you extremist anti priacy people are psycho.

:smurf:


Emulation has never been about priating games.

No, but its used by pirate arcade companies. Or you never saw Arcade halls with a (pirate) MAME PC inside a cabinet next to the few Sega, Namco real machines that are still left?

Or even worse.. you never saw (pirate)(hacked)MAME PC Cabinets in public places playing NeoGeo *new* games?


Another thing are you a arcade vendor? .

No.


Do you buy arcade boards?.

Yes.


No didnt think so would Sammy be loosing a sell from you by you play Atomiswave on your PC,.

With me sure not.. I dont really buy Arcade boards newer than 1990 :)


Your gonna say they're loosing money per game well actually they're not they dont make money off of the credits only the stores do.

The fact is that the stores get more profit with a Pirate emulator-PC than than with a dedicated real machine... then, why buy a real machine?

Before this started as a retro-curiosity to play old arcade games, now it turned into something not such "retro" since they started to setup machines with the newers neo-geo developments... you think that when chankast-naomi would be playable these companies will not setup machines with that emulator and sell them?

deibit
June 8th, 2004, 08:27
such a lock will simply encourage people to hack the emu to remove the lock again. as it has always been.

Well one efective option would be to just don't release the ROM or GD-ROM dumps... (I dont think there are more than two or three persons around there with the knowledge/tools/mood to dump them) so this could be a good way to avoid the problem without needing to restrict the emulator, no?

(ugs.. now i guess I should prepare myself for another insult-round) :happy:

mezkal
June 8th, 2004, 08:28
i don't quite understand it...but something, somewhere tells me that mike was being sarcastic.<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_203574", true); </SCRIPT>

Gee Ya reckon? Ever notice the sarcasm just dripping from my somewhat obviously rhetorical question to Mike.

LOL

such a quick bunch here.


Anyway my point is that at least with blocks the Chanka dev's do somewhat remain out of the litigous firiing line. All things being equal.

Evrain
June 8th, 2004, 09:28
Well one efective option would be to just don't release the ROM or GD-ROM dumps... (
(ugs.. now i guess I should prepare myself for another insult-round) :happy:

Uhm... err... definitely the worst choice: I know what kind of beasts users become when they can't play something they would like to play but it's simply not still around *HUGE sweatdrop*
I was one of them a few months back *GIGANTIC sweatdrop*
Evrain

madprofessor
June 8th, 2004, 11:57
i think deibit is right. if emulation goes so fast there won't be any systems to emulate in the near future :bounce:
although it is nice to have emulators for systems that are commercially dead... in spite of their age

Davv13
June 8th, 2004, 12:52
i think deibit is right. if emulation goes so fast there won't be any systems to emulate in the near future :bounce:
although it is nice to have emulators for systems that are commercially dead... in spite of their age
Well no,it took about 4 years after the death of the DC to finally emulate it. Even if there was a working emu for ps2 or xbox out no pc would be able to run the games fast enough to play them. By the time the pc is fast enough to emulate these two console we will be on the verge of xbox3 and ps4. So no hurting would be done to the ps2 or xbox console, so current consoles will always get there day in the sun,think about it.

mezkal
June 8th, 2004, 13:23
Well no,it took about 4 years after the death of the DC to finally emulate it. Even if there was a working emu for ps2 or xbox out no pc would be able to run the games fast enough to play them. By the time the pc is fast enough to emulate these two console we will be on the verge of xbox3 and ps4. So no hurting would be done to the ps2 or xbox console, so current consoles will always get there day in the sun,think about it.

For the most part you're correct. Except where you state that an XBOX emu would require a fast PC. LOL You've got to be kidding. The XBOX's CPU is a Celeron/PIII Hybrid (essentially a low voltage CuMine) and it runs at an astounding 733mhz, the rest of the system is essentially a GF3 (with GF4 VS, PS 1.1 and GF4 Memory architecture) running on a UMA based Nforce 1 chipset. Early dev kits emulated most of this using a combination of standard's based hardware and a few layers of software where the DICE (Dolby real-time encoder and surround sound chipset) and GF3+ were concerned. So essentially XBOX emulators have already been made and used. :P in 1999 :P

Evrain
June 8th, 2004, 13:32
MegaLOL! True... in fact Caustik can run Turok 3 on a middle-end machine, yet every single instruction is ported directly to DX without much effort.
Evrain

mezkal
June 8th, 2004, 13:33
Yeah too bad its Turok 3 with its TOTAL poly count of 200 :P