Emulation better than original system?
- Thread starter Rimmer
- Start date
Quvack
Member
Yeah its possible, the majority of games do run smoother while being emulated (minus a few really system taxing ones *glares at rareware*), you can have better resolution, filters, netplay, save states, cheats and all that stuff, but its never 'better' than the original system, even with all the extra features and stuff, you lack the feeling of the original console, and theres always minor problems with emulation, no matter how miniscule.
Generally, no. Ignoring PC specs for a moment, if an emulator is accurate, game speed will be subject to the same hiccups as seen on the console. Take XG2 for example. The game was slow on the console and it's slow with an emulator, regardless of how powerful your computer is.
Game speed can be smoother in certain situations. Some derivatives of MAME allow overclocking of the emulated CPU(s). Games that were sluggish in the arcade (and by extension, in MAME) can be much smoother if you emulate the hardware at a faster rate than it was originally designed to run (Metal Slug anyone?).
If an emulator allowed you to increase the speed of the r4300i used in the N64 from it's default ~93 MHz to say, 120 MHz, games could be smoother in the emulator. Whether this is feasible for the N64, which is far more complex than a NeoGeo, is for an author to answer.
Game speed can be smoother in certain situations. Some derivatives of MAME allow overclocking of the emulated CPU(s). Games that were sluggish in the arcade (and by extension, in MAME) can be much smoother if you emulate the hardware at a faster rate than it was originally designed to run (Metal Slug anyone?).
If an emulator allowed you to increase the speed of the r4300i used in the N64 from it's default ~93 MHz to say, 120 MHz, games could be smoother in the emulator. Whether this is feasible for the N64, which is far more complex than a NeoGeo, is for an author to answer.
OP
Rimmer
"Know you enemy"
- Thread Starter
- #5
Allnatural said:
This is what I was asking for. Is there any N64 emulator that allows you to change the speed of the CPU? It would be great to be able to play Perfect Dark at stable framerate.
another question:
What exactly does counter factor do? It makes the game run smoother if changed from CF=2 to CF=1 (at least in Perfect Dark), isn't this some kind of overclocking? It sure requires a lot of hardware power. My PC (XP3200+ 200MHz FSB, 256MB DDR400, Geforce FX5200) can't make it.
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Without more information, i guess these machines with "overclocked emulators" have a timer outside of the processor that is sending an interupt request to the processor each x ms. This way it's easy to change the amount of executed instructions between two timer interupts to overclock the processor.
On the n64 it's a bit different, the system doesn't have a timer, it's increasing a register in the processor after each opcode. This counter is the only way for the game to know how much time has passed between two events. The CF setting in 1964 is changing the increment number of this counter. What's the benefit ? More instructions can be exectuted between two video interupts for example. But as the counter can be used by many things in the game, it's not totally like overclocking the processor depending on the use of the counter by the game, it can break compatibility. Usually chaning the CF help changing thread priorities it means that for example more frames can be computed during the same amount of time.
On the n64 it's a bit different, the system doesn't have a timer, it's increasing a register in the processor after each opcode. This counter is the only way for the game to know how much time has passed between two events. The CF setting in 1964 is changing the increment number of this counter. What's the benefit ? More instructions can be exectuted between two video interupts for example. But as the counter can be used by many things in the game, it's not totally like overclocking the processor depending on the use of the counter by the game, it can break compatibility. Usually chaning the CF help changing thread priorities it means that for example more frames can be computed during the same amount of time.
Because:lyssa said:
Hacktarux said:
RJARRRPCGP
The Rocking PC Wiz
Rimmer said:
Your processor is more than enough for Perfect Dark for cryin' out loud. I can run Perfect Dark fairly smoothly with an Athlon T-bird 1.3 ghz under Project64!
Your slowness problem probably is caused by your video card.
(*-RJARRRPCGP looks at his video card to find out the video card is only a GeForce FX 5200 with that Athlon XP Barton 3200+)
cooliscool
Nintendo Zealot
RJARRRPCGP said:
... you know, as much as you say you know, most of it is BS, not excluding this post.
His videocard will not cause a game in project64/1964 to be slow, by any means. His card is more than enough actually.
schibo
Emulator Developer
Allnatural said:
This may be the case for other types of emulators, but to clarify, for N64 emulation today, that is incorrect. In order for an emulator to have the same speed issues, the emulator would have to do cycle-accurate emulation--which means that the pipeline and all other things that eat up cycles would need to be 1 to 1. It is unfeasible to emulate the pipeline, since it's just a tremendous amount of work, and and it is easier to estimate cycle count and play with the timing for better performance on an emulated system. In theory, if you did HLE threading, you could get much better framerates and so on, which is in part why playing with the CF will give you different results.
zAlbee
Keeper of The Iron Tail
@RJARRR... and cooliscool:
read Rimmer's post again, he only says it becomes slow if he sets the CF to 1.
secondly, don't underestimate the videocard. just because the CPU is more important doesn't mean that you can ignore the vidcard, just throw in some trash and get away with it. the fx5200 is rubbish and wouldn't be "more than enough" if you wanted high quality settings and CF 1.
you wouldn't think so, but it really is amazing once you see the difference with a good card. case in point: i was surprised that my friend's faster P4 was using the default Jabo's with Transfer Memory and no aniso. so i ramped it up to 8x and triple buffer vsync... the gf4mx couldn't handle it. the same settings are a walk in the park for my 8500. same thing happened when i recommended glN64 to fix the smash bros anomalies. all my cheapo gf2/4 MX using friends were telling me "its really slow..." and i was thinking it's really not that slow... until i saw their comps. want more? i was practically laughing my ass off when i saw my residence floormate's shiny new P4 struggling with the graphics in JK2 because he had onboard intel graphics... JK2 for god's sake...
read Rimmer's post again, he only says it becomes slow if he sets the CF to 1.
secondly, don't underestimate the videocard. just because the CPU is more important doesn't mean that you can ignore the vidcard, just throw in some trash and get away with it. the fx5200 is rubbish and wouldn't be "more than enough" if you wanted high quality settings and CF 1.
you wouldn't think so, but it really is amazing once you see the difference with a good card. case in point: i was surprised that my friend's faster P4 was using the default Jabo's with Transfer Memory and no aniso. so i ramped it up to 8x and triple buffer vsync... the gf4mx couldn't handle it. the same settings are a walk in the park for my 8500. same thing happened when i recommended glN64 to fix the smash bros anomalies. all my cheapo gf2/4 MX using friends were telling me "its really slow..." and i was thinking it's really not that slow... until i saw their comps. want more? i was practically laughing my ass off when i saw my residence floormate's shiny new P4 struggling with the graphics in JK2 because he had onboard intel graphics... JK2 for god's sake...
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scotty
The Great One
Emulation is not the same as using the real tihng. ie. the core, as Schibo stated emulating everything related to N64 isnt worth the time. The timing is much more complicated, especially true when you are playing some games. Thre are some unique games for N64 that still dont work because of these matters.
For the most part emulators do everything so well that its hard to notice the difference, but its still an imitation
For the most part emulators do everything so well that its hard to notice the difference, but its still an imitation
khanmeister
Banned
scotty said:
This is a silly debate. Who really wants to dust off the N64, and it's (to me at least) silly controllers, and drag out and dust every cart and play them? Who wants to have ANOTHER box sitting on their desk by the monitor, amps, vcr, pc, rf modulator, gamepads, keyboards, mouse, knife (for opening new hardware), back scratcher (This is a must!), Web cam, cell phone and two old 133 sdrams that i can't do a damn thing with?
By the way, anyone wanna buy 2 sd133 512mb rams sticks? They are very dependable and I just don't have a machine for them. All my machines are DDR now.
I'll take $10 off the cheapest pricewatch quote (minus shipping).
I'd consider a trade, too if you have a half decent vid card or DDR ram stick laying around gathering dust. Or a 200 gb hard drive
Just looked on price watch, they are rated at $58 a piece, so I'll sell em both for $100.
Shipping will probably only be about $10 for COD.
How'd I get so OT?
schibo -> thank you for the clarification