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micro-itx mainboard video

L

lonestar

New member
I am considering a little project using a micro-itx mainboard. The goal is to create a very compact and portable emulation system. It appears that Project 64 has the greatest video demands than most emulators. I was wondering if onboard micro-itx sound and video specifications would be sufficient for Project64.

http://www.viavpsd.com/product/epia_mini_itx_spec.jsp?motherboardId=141

I am a little concerned after experiencing and reading about the direct3d and directx issues.
 
Stezo2k

Stezo2k

S-2K
i'd say probably not mate, even if the system is high spec, PJ64 still needs a decent spec graphics card, integrated GPUs won't help much at all, and i don't know of any Micro-Itx motherboards that have an AGP port

though using other n64 emulators could increase the speed greatly, ultrahle in my opinion could easily work full speed on a microITX system
 
Clements

Clements

Active member
Moderator
I agree with Stezo2k about the onboard video part.

I believe that you could put together a decent Shuttle system capable of N64 emulation which would be fairly portable, although it'll be more expensive, you'll get much better performance out of it. Check the requirements in PJ64's manual for a rough guide on what components you'd need for decent graphics and speed.

Info on Shuttle systems can be found here:

http://www.spacewalker.com/index7.html
 
OP
L

lonestar

New member
Yeah, I was little worried about onboard video. My goal was to fit it inside a NES console, a NESPC with NES, SNES and N64.

I don't know much about those shuttle systems. I visited the site and they all look like ATX boards.

What do you think about UltraHLE? I thought it was discontinued? Isn't P64 the best N64 emulator?
 
Stezo2k

Stezo2k

S-2K
lonestar said:
Yeah, I was little worried about onboard video. My goal was to fit it inside a NES console, a NESPC with NES, SNES and N64.

I don't know much about those shuttle systems. I visited the site and they all look like ATX boards.

What do you think about UltraHLE? I thought it was discontinued? Isn't P64 the best N64 emulator?
Click to expand...

well it's possible to fit it into a NES console, i've seen it done on the official micro ITX site.

the shuttle systems are like Mini ITX, but can be much higher spec (about the same as a desktop pc) and can use an AGP graphics card, also there are 64-bit shuttle pcs, and they are pretty damn small :)

here is what a typical one looks like

http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/prod...2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=55018

Due to it using a smaller motherboard, performence will be increased too, though they might be pricey, they are worth it.

As for ultraHLE, it isn't discontinued, dominator and friends are carrying on the project, it's not as compatible as pj64, but is much faster

www.ultrahle2064.com
 
OP
L

lonestar

New member
I'm not sure if I'm looking at the right thing, all the Shuttle boards I see are ATX and mini-ATX.

It would be great to find a mni-its size board with a AGP slot.

from mini-itx specs: Integrated AGP4X with 2D/3D Graphics Acceleration
Click to expand...
What does that mean? Would it meet P64 requirements?

P64 requires
100% Microsoft DirectX 7 compatible video, sound and input devices

recommended
nVidia GeForce3 or later or ATI Radeon or later
Click to expand...

Would a PCI Radeon card be suffient? Mini-itx boards have a PCI slot, if the card would fit in the NES console.
 
Clements

Clements

Active member
Moderator
lonestar said:
What does that mean? Would it meet P64 requirements?

....

Would a PCI Radeon card be suffient? Mini-itx boards have a PCI slot, if the card would fit in the NES console.
Click to expand...

Integrated graphics is almost always below system requirements. There are exceptions to the rule, as some motherboards come with GeForce4 MX/Radeon 9100 integrated these days which are enough to use PJ64 (although GeForce4 MX is just below PJ64's recommended requirements, but is good enough for a good experience). The likelyhood of it being GeForce/Radeon is extremely slim indeed. Even these integrated graphics cards are much slower than their standard AGP counterparts. Only Radeons or GeForces are sufficient since most plugins aren't built with other brands in mind.

A PCI Radeon of equal or above the power of a Radeon 8500 would meet the recommended requirements of PJ64. I'm not up on my knowledge of what PCI Radeons are available though, but 8500 equivalent would provide optimal graphics. I do know that PCI GeForceFX 5200 and 5600 exist and have the necessary features that PJ64 requires.
 
sheik124

sheik124

Emutalk Member
the Apollo chipset in the motherboard contains S3 ProSavage GFX (heh, mine) and Jabo's gives me 100% compatibility (well not 100% but its good)
and my friend, when you say shuttle mainboards look ITX and ATX you are probably just looking at mainboards they make, what everyone here is trying to say is get a Shuttle SFF (Small Form Factor) Barebone and want you to take out the innards, most of the Athlon XP ones come with integrated GeForce 4 MX GFX and they come with specialized heatpipe cooler thingies
Heres One with out the integrated GFX, just the nforce2ultra 400 chipset and an AGP 8x slot and heres one with the nforce2 IGP chipset (Integrated Geforce 4 MX 440), they have it in silver too, just go to newegg.com, select shop by category, then barebones, then shuttle, then look around (and don't get a Athlon XP barebone with the KM400, the integrated gfx suxxor
 
4real

4real

New member
Im not saying intergrated Gfx is the way to go but for info only i have no problems with SIS.

I run on very low specs on my laptop for pj64 but seem ok as long as windows xp is set to high performance settings.

I get 60 fps and hardly any slowdowns at all.

I do find that 1964 plays a lot faster and better with Mupen 64 rsp then PJ64.

So this could be an option.
 
OP
L

lonestar

New member
sheik124 said:
what everyone here is trying to say is get a Shuttle SFF (Small Form Factor) Barebone and want you to take out the innards
Click to expand...
I really wasn't wanting to buy a $250 dollar system and then gut it out. I 'd rather just buy the components. I was hoping to build the whole thing under $200.

Whats the diff betweena Radeon 7000 & 8500, or a G2 and G4? The only PCI cards I found so far were Radeon 7000 or G2. What about the memory, say a 64mb 7000 vs a 32mb 8500?

What about a XBOX? What kind of video card do they use? I have seen were people mod a XBOX, install a new OS and use it for emulation so they can play either XBOX games or emulation off the harddrive. Would a XBOX run P64?

Does emulation require that much more video card performance than the original games? If lower cards such as the 7000 or G2 are cabaple of running HALO, I would think they would handle 64bit N64 emulation.

http://support.microsoft.com/?id=829478
 
Clements

Clements

Active member
Moderator
An Xbox can emulate an N64 just fine as long as the rom is not too large (although XBox RAM can be expanded as well as the hard drive). An XBox has a GeForce 3 card which meets the recommended requirements of PJ64. The processsor is fast enough to allow good speed.

As for a Radeon 7000/G2, I *think* a G2 is a Matrox card that is below the minimum system requirements of PJ64. A Radeon 7000 is a little lacking but I do believe it meets PJ64's minimum requirements:

"nVidia GeForce256 and ATI Radeon (early models) are suggested as realistic minimum video hardware. In conjunction with good quality drivers they have the required features. Newer cards mainly allow better resolutions, filtering, anti-aliasing and so on."

N64 emulation has high requirements so is likely too expensive to do on the cheap like you can do with a SNES/PSX. Some people on this board have their main PCs below system requirements of PJ64. With my [email protected]/GeForceFX 5600 combo I can barely manage fullspeed with Goldeneye 007 (I have to turn AA and AF off to get fullspeed at 1280x1024 :shock: ).

You'd be better off with the modded XBox than a Shuttle, since a shuttle system would never get under $200.
 
I

ironjass

New member
lonestar,

I'm in the same situation as you, and i'm just doing my initial research on this.

I have an empty NES case, a slimline dvd drive, usb wireless etc. Just need to get the mini-itx board, and a PCI graphics card that i can use to play N64 games and i'll be a happy gamer.

Still trying to make sure that i can get a low profile card that's powerful enough.
 
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