[$threadinfo[title]]

[desertboy]

::For anyone reading this on the emulation64 website check this thread
::for the pics
::http://www.emutalk.net/showthread.php?threadid=18332

You've probably heard there's an N64 emulator for the xbox in fact there's been 5 attempts at porting an N64 emulator but Surreal64 has been the first one to do it credibly.

1st A little history of N64 emulation on the xbox

Daedalus port by StrmnNrmn (No sound, crashed constantly but was ported in a couple of days and never finished)

Daedalus port by Hikaru (No sound, crashed a lot, only really played mario64 & mario kart)

PJ64-x by Lantus this was the emulator that caused all the controversy with the $2000+ cash prize, the author felt the need to keep his identity secret (Even though he was well respected in the xbox scene) which he then divided the prize money between a debug xbox for himself, cash for Rice & a donation to emulation64.) this was the first emulator to have sound and ran quite a few games close to perfect and a lot more with glitch's.

Ultraxle by oDD (A regular in these forums at one time) which came out a few days after pj64-x. It was a great port of ultrahle which ran all the games ultrahle did but unfortunatly was prone to random crashes.

and that brings us to Surreal64 a port of 1964,pj64 & ultrahle by oDD & Lantus. oDD ported 1964 & ultrahle, Lantus ported pj64 & the plugins.

Now the history lessons over I guess you all want to know the juicy stuff like how well does it run? What plugins have been ported? Can it load those big roms?


First the plugins
Audio Azimer's HLE & PJ64RSP
Graphics Rice's 5.0.1d
Input there own one I guess it doesn't say

I've played with Rice's plugin on my PC with varying results (As I'm sure most of you have) but I could never get the sort of results that Rice gets (Understandable) but this port makes Rice's plugin sing and it sounds beautiful. The bleed problem that long haunted Rice's plugin is almost non existent only pilotwings had this problem and that was much better than before.

How well does it run?

Very good here's a list of games I would consider to be close to perfect (In many cases it really is almost perfect, much closer than I've ever seen a pc come even with my adaptoid)

All Star Tennis '99
Carmegeddon
Diddy Kong Racing
Earthworm Jim 3D
Gex 64: Enter The Gecko
Go by train (Densha De Go) If only I could hook my controller up.
Harvest Moon
Hybrid Heaven
Jet Force Gemini
Mario Kart 64
Mario Party 1, 2 & 3
Micromachines 64
Paper Mario
Rayman 2
South Park
Super Mario 64
Zelda Ocarina of time (Make sure you use Usa version 1.0)

They all played with either no issues or slight (Zelda's shadow looks funny when he's on a bridge, mario party some stars are black instead of gold)

All the games in my list I played for over an hour each my 2 long term studies Mario Party 3 and Zelda have had considerably more play.

I've won 3 mario party matches (Lost 3 as well) and had 2 crashes during gameplay which isn't bad at all.

Zelda my long term test I've just completed the Water Temple. (Just before you get the Lens of Truth which should be interesting) it hasn't crashed a single time that's 30+hours of playing Ocarina of time without a single crash I think that's probably better than my N64.

There were plenty of games that ran fine but had issues with Rice's plugin

CBFD (plays very good but has texture issues related to 5.0.1d)
Mario Golf (Usual plugin problems)
Mario Tennis (plays perfect but has the usual framebuffer problems, 5.3.0 cures a lot of these problems so I await the update with bated breath)
Pilotwings (Which has issues with everyone's plugin)
Sin & Punishment (Some levels look funny but I still managed to complete it with great enjoyment)
Wipeout (Looks perfect but runs at 200FPS making it far too fast)

There are a few games though that cause problems

Resident Evil 2 (doesn't it always cause problems it doesn't even load here)
Perfect Dark (It's just too slow, with 128meg xbox (They're debug xbox's or ones people have soldered extra memory chips into) it runs fine but 64meg standard xbox just doesn't have enough ram for a decent enough sized dynrec.
Goldeneye (It runs too slow on 1964 or PJ64 and it just feels wrong to me in ultrahle)

Check
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?act=ST&f=17&t=156834&st=0

for an idea on compatibility although often while the (E) & (J) rom don't work the (U) will or vice versa so take that list with a pinch of salt.

Features of the emulator

5 save states per rom, mempak and rumble pack support, support for the analogue sticks and 4 pads.

EDIT: Now at home I can finish it on an operating system that actually works.

If you push the right stick down it brings up the savestate menu which also has debug info which tells you FPS & memory left.

It should be noted that the emulator uses virtual memory to handle the roms (It's set to only have 4 meg of rom in ram at once) it doesn't seem to cause any problems with the majority of games but it might well cause the occasional pause I haven't noticed it.

Your limited to what settings you can play with you can choose which audio plugin Azimer or PJ64RSP and you can play around with the memory settings. Increase/decrease the dynrec and set maximum video memory and the rom paging size (How much of the rom is in memory at one time). The debug screen which tells you how much ram is free well if you've got some free ram and the games a bit slow increase the dynrec.

I found that most games play fine on standard settings but Carmeggedon ran a lot better with 12meg dynrec for 1964. Also it's worth noting that Zelda runs around 20FPS which seems to around what it ran on the N64 yet emulators normally tell you the VI not the real framerate so don't be surprised when you see your favourite N64 games didn't run at as high a framerate as your first thought.

I've just got to dig my camera out and I'll snap a few more screenshots and add them.

All games were tested in 1964, except the ones that didn't work for any reason other than graphics plugin in which case they were tested in PJ64 as well. If it works on ultrahle then I tried in the xbox port.

the emulator scores a whacking 9/10 the most impressive emulator for the xbox, all that's left really is Rice plugin updates (Maybe a glide64 port with a glide wrapper) and update 1964 core to .99 when it becomes available. Which might well bring those few games that are too slow into the playable arena.


A big thank you to Lantus, oDD, Rice, Schibo, Azimer, Jabo & all the others I forgot.

Quick update Lens of Truth works fine and I'm almost through the Shadow Temple by tomorrow I should have it licked.

If anyone wants screenshots of a particular game, ask and I'll see what I can do. I can only use the digicam to get screenshots as you need the XDK (Xbox dev kit) to get direct screenshots which I don't have.

[james.miller]

ooooh ive got it too. Damn fine piece of work if i may say so. It's just a shame that perfect dark is soo slow. I'm really thinking about the 128mb mod just to play that lol. Goldeneye, on the other hand, is suprisingly playable. A little texture corruption here and there, but overall its pretty good.

[lantus]

nice review there Desertboy :)

we spent some time with Rice's 5.1.0d source optimizing it for the Xbox in terms of combiner stages and capabilities of the nvidia chipset.

were looking at getting PD running better in 64megs in the next version. So far we have had some success with this.

As mentioned thanks to Rice, we will be using 5.3.1 as well.

[Martin]

I couldn't post this in emu64 reviews so I'll post it here.

Yes, the reason for this is that we need to approve any content that is listed at Emulation64.com. If you were able to post it directly in Emu64 Reviews it would show up at the main site. I've approved the review though and moved it to Emu64 Reviews. Nice work, and thanks for the submission. :)

[desertboy]

As the subject says

EDIT: Add a screenshot

I should probably also add the one thing that p*sses me off about the emulator push the left stick down to swap between rumble pack & mempak well I keep doing it constantly during a mini game on mario party for 3 friends you see in the bottom left hand corner mempak inserted and rumblepak inserted constantly. A small gripe but aside from plugin issues which we all know can't be helped there isn't anything else that pisses me off.

[desertboy]

I had to post this screenshot the lens of truth working properly on Surreal64.

[desertboy]

Just press the Y button to select the emulator favourite (The one with the star above and when you open the rom the hand is hovering above the favourite emulator (for that rom). You can see you can configure the controls on a rom by rom basis and you can set custom settings for each rom as well.

It's official Zelda:OOT is completable in Surreal64, I completed it yesterday. I used 1964 on standard settings there were a few issues but nothing that affacted the gameplay or my enjoyment.

[chilin_dude]

Great review!
Can't wait for next result :-D

[sheik124]

this thing rox, now i can finally play Flying Dragon

[iamcheese]

anyone want me to post some direct screens?


i have the xdk and i could take some if you guys want...

i am also still stuck on a dial-up connection so i only have 2 crap games right now

blast corps and Tetrisphere

but i am working on downloading The Ledgend of Zelda: oot

anyother games youguys think i should download

[Doomulation]

They all played with either no issues or slight (Zelda's shadow looks funny when he's on a bridge, mario party some stars are black instead of gold)
Although it's old, I thought I'd write it anyhow.
Zelda is a he? From when? :P

[desertboy]

Although it's old, I thought I'd write it anyhow.
Zelda is a he? From when? :P
Sorry of course I knew that, it's just you get used to saying it, Link not Princess Zelda, me bad.

[Doomulation]

I know. A lot of people do :)
A lot of stupid people think link is zelda, too, because of the title (should be the legend of link, not zelda :P since he's the hero you control all the time).
Anyway, it's always fun to point out.

[desertboy]

With Rice's release of the source for 5.6.0 an update should be on it's way, here's hoping they include the pilotwings and SSB fixes.

[lantus]

yep, we are aware of it and will include them for sure - both games are personal favorites of ours

[desertboy]

yep, we are aware of it and will include them for sure - both games are personal favorites of ours


To be honest I've never got into SSB I know a lot of you have, top topic in the XS forums.

Pilotwings on the other hand is one of my all time favourite games, inspired little game.

[ScorpionZero]

Wow, great review. I gotta download this emulator for my XBOX. The Snapshots look amazing. :D

[desertboy]

Wow, great review. I gotta download this emulator for my XBOX. The Snapshots look amazing. :D


A side note I'm not sure if I made

Surreal64 is built with M$ own SDK meaning the compiled downloads are on decidedly shaky ground. No one here will help you find them but google is your friend (Or IRC and FTP but that's more complicated)

a couple of shots from surreal64 update shamelessly ripped off xbox-scene originally posted by oDD.

[BountyJedi]

now i wish i had got an xbox :P cant something like this come out for the gc then i'd be in seventh heaven =P

[desertboy]

now i wish i had got an xbox :P cant something like this come out for the gc then i'd be in seventh heaven =P


I believe there is an N64 emulator for the GC, it's illegal (Made by the big N themselves to run Masters quest). I've heard people have got mario running on it (A hacked version) but wouldn't rely on playing many games on it.

And you need the BB adapter to play it.

On a side note whoop tee doo over 5000 views.

[simeonipicke]

i find on zelda:mask game that its feezes when i try load state is this the game or will it do that on all games on surreal?

[desertboy]

i find on zelda:mask game that its feezes when i try load state is this the game or will it do that on all games on surreal?

I never played Zelda:MM on Surreal64 but OOT did crash a lot when trying to load savestates (It only ever happened when loading the savesate for the first time, if it loaded then I could save & load state at will).

Try loading the savestate as soon as the rom loads (sometimes it would take five attempts to actually get it to load), also make sure you save to mempak regulary as well (Which works fine).

I'd leave MM until the update for surreal64 as I believe Rice's 5.6.0 fixes a lot of problems and hopefully the savestate problem will be ironed out. (Loading savestates only seems to be a problem on certain big roms 24+meg, I suspect a memory issue.)

I wouldn't let it put you off this emulator rocks and it's the nicest way I've found to play 4 player N64 games without actually having an N64.

[DarthDazDC]

EDIT: Thanks MasterPhW_DX.

[MasterPhW]

I've got a modded xbox and really want to test my roms out with this. Does anyone know of the homepage for it or where i can download it?
Please change your post. it's a illegal binary, like desertboy said it's done with M$ own SDK, that means it's illegal to give a download adn probably asking for it, too!

[Veggie15]

Am I allowed to ask where to download surreal 64 =) if so, then someone please help me. If not, then sorry.

[cooliscool]

*sigh*.

No, you're not.

[MasterPhW]

Why all are to lazy to search...

[JinXD]

w00t version 3 out (info from emuhelp (http://www.emuhelp.com/#5086)):
http://xbox-emulation.dcemu.co.uk/surreal.shtml

[desertboy]

w00t version 3 out (info from emuhelp (http://www.emuhelp.com/#5086)):
http://xbox-emulation.dcemu.co.uk/surreal.shtml


No it's not it's freakydave release which is exactly the same as surreal64 1.0 but with a couple of features but no updated video plugins and no core code changes just joypad sensitivity (Essential for many games but none I actually play) and a way to turn off the xbox's in built flicker filter to get extra sharpness.

We're going to have to wait for oDD to find time to update it but I waited 6 months last time I can happily wait a year this time. I still have my N64 in case of emergency's.

[desertboy]

It should be noted that surreal has had several updates by other authors to include 5.3.1 and the 5.6 rice's plugin I've not tried it for more than a couple of minutes but pilot wings was a lot better.

[rumplestiltskin]

Guys... im getting really envious reading ur posts!!! i cant get my surreal64 to see the roms on my xbox, has anyone had this problem in the past? its driving me nuts!! i configured all the proper .ini files to point to where my roms are stored but it still cant find them when i fire it up.

anyone know what could be up?

[TyRaNtM]

Is possible convert Surreal64 of Xbox to GC? Now the things are totally diferent to GC. Don't need BBA adapters, you can use Action Replay+SD, or modchips. Converting Surreal64 to GC should be awesome.

If somebody want convert and don't know GC develop, try this links:

- www.maxconsole.net
- www.gcdev.com
- gcemu.dcemu.com