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An inacuracy in (AFAIK) all gfx plugins

zorbid

New member
The screen border...

On a real TV, the black border is "displayed" outside the TV screen
<img src="http://www.emutalk.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=142610">

and in Zelda, on the TV screen, the distance between the border of the screen and both big buttons (A and B) is about 1.5 times the distance between these buttons. The space is too big here.
<img src="http://www.emutalk.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=142611">

Since no one has ever implememented this, I assume that there is(are) some good reason(s) for it.

Are there games that don't have these theorically hidden borders? Or worse, games that sometimes use it and somtims don't? If yes, is it hard to determine wether it should hide the borders or not?

Would some kind of "zoom in" be difficult to implement.
 
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My95ZR2

New member
I've noticed that also, but I want to point out something, that Zelda shot is from Master Quest, which was never released to the public on N64, so there may of been some changes when it was ported to GC. On the other hand, I have noticed when I play Zelda OoT full screen (via TV-OUT) it does just bearly clip the buttons, but on other games, it looks fine (ones with borders). Anyway, I think the border is hard-coded into the game, I know SSB has a border in it...

Adam
 

Slougi

New member
There have been severely long threads about this in the past. What is happening is the TV cuts of part of the picture, but the N64 generates the same borders.
 

Tagrineth

Dragony thingy
Yup, it's called overscan.

Having the viewport borders go beyond the visible screen space can be helpful from a programmer's perspective. =)
 

Clements

Active member
Moderator
You can just adjust your monitor to get rid of the borders.

Just a question- does this occur in other types of emulation? I've only seen borders in N64 emulation.
 
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zorbid

zorbid

New member
Clements said:
You can just adjust your monitor to get rid of the borders.
Sure, or put some tape on my screen borders... Ok, I scramm :).

This doesn't tell me why plugin authors chose not to simulate the overscan (thanks Tag' :)). When plugged it's plugged to a VGA box, does the overscan still happen?




I've made a search for black borders and overscan, there are a few posts, but nothing I'd qualify "long threads about this", or, at least, nothing with detailled pros and cons. Did these discussions occur before emutalk switched to vBulletin, or maybe elsewhere?
 
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Slougi

New member
zorbid said:
Sure, or put some tape on my screen borders... Ok, I scramm :).

This doesn't tell me why plugin authors chose not to simulate the overscan (thanks Tag' :)). When plugged it's plugged to a VGA box, does the overscan still happen?
It is not emulated because it would mean extra work. It was also not realized until Jabo's plugin was at version 1.4 why this happens, and that is not too long ago, so someone might still implement it :)
I see no reason to do it though.

I've made a search for black borders and overscan, there are a few posts, but nothing I'd qualify "long threads about this", or, at least, nothing with detailled pros and cons. Did these discussions occur before emutalk switched to vBulletin, or maybe elsewhere?
I am not sure, I distinctly remember a thread where someone posted this and smiff and jabo replied both. It might have been in the 1.4 beta feedback thread, I cannot really recall.
 
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zorbid

zorbid

New member
Thanks for your answer, Slougi.

Now that I think of it, to reproduce the same behaviour (because asking the user to stretch the picture with the monitor control is not really an comfortable sotution, although it doensn't matter much, eh), you'd have to create a frame buffer that's wider than what's displayed. AFAIK, it isn't possible for a coder to do that with the current PC hardware (although IIRC, videocards sometimes do that internally, for example, in 640*480 mode, the frame buffer of nVidia cards is 1024 pixels wide, because it fits the memory better, giving faster results. Only the 640 first pixels of each lines are displayed).
 

Laahel

New member
don't think it is a really good idea to implement this....

i don't know if it should be considered as a part of the emulation of the console or... as a part of the emulation of a tv ...

there are softwares like tvtools that allow you to do overscan with your tv out... and if you simulate such a thing in the plugin... well, a good amount of the image will be missing...

i think this is a thing that should be worked with tv out.... in fact the drivers of the cards lacks often the overscan, not the emulators ( voodoo3 does it very well )

mmmmhh, i think FFIV on the snes has black borders on the emulators... it could means that sometimes programmers take into acount the overscan, and some other times they're not
 

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