....Perfection? [Archive]

Cadex

May 29th, 2003, 04:10

You could enable "Sync gameplay to audio" in Azimer's Audio 0.40 beta plugin, which will probably fix the audio but cause jerky gameplay.

If it really bothers you, I recommend trying Zelda on Project64. That runs it perfect for me without the crackly audio of 1964. But really it's a minor problem and if you want a game to be perfect play it on an actual N64.

nephalim

May 29th, 2003, 04:25

If you want absolute perfection then emulation is not for you. Only SNES emulation is anything resembling "perfect."

AzNStYleZ

May 29th, 2003, 04:37

yeah i suppose your right, emulation shouldn't really be perfect ne wayz.... to picky aint i :D

tooie

May 29th, 2003, 04:53

maybe if you want it closer to the original you can remove all the features like instant saves, better gfx, cheats, etc .. then it will be closer to perfect as how the n64 does .. but perfection is maybe not exactly what you mean ?

AzNStYleZ

May 29th, 2003, 20:11

Yeah, by perfection i meant like cheats, gfx, all the good stuff PLUS complete smooth sound and gameplay...not gonna happen.. not for n64 ne wayz..well i hope it does! :D

scotty

May 29th, 2003, 20:20

I know that that question depends on the system specs. I know that Mario Kart and F-Zero X are perfect here. Perfect Dark is fairly perfect with Azimers Audio .4 beta 2 with .21 style on(1964).
Games By Rare are really good on 1964, in fact I use PJ64 for everything, but games by Rare

nephalim

May 29th, 2003, 20:21

For the N64, using the current methods of emulation, perfect emulation for every or nearly every game is practically impossible.

Clements

May 29th, 2003, 22:44

Lots of people complain of crackly sound, which I have never experienced. You need a fast processor (1.2GHz+) and a modern sound card.

I think it's a bit too early to be looking for perfection considering the relative difficulty and the relatively brief time that emulating the N64 has been viable.

scotty

May 30th, 2003, 00:04

Originally posted by Clements
Lots of people complain of crackly sound, which I have never experienced. You need a fast processor (1.2GHz+) and a modern sound card.

I think it's a bit too early to be looking for perfection considering the relative difficulty and the relatively brief time that emulating the N64 has been viable.

As always Clements, you have a good point, it is somewhat early, but then again, It has really come along. I really think that if Jabo ever does come back to N64 Emulation, then maybe it might be earlier than we all think. Jabo's D3D6 V1.5 is the best Video plugin, I think that if he comes back, then the core of his emulator will be almost perfect to me

NeoNight

May 30th, 2003, 02:03

I'd say diddy kong racing

ScottJC

May 30th, 2003, 11:31

Perfect emulation is impossible;

Near perfect isn't...

schibo

May 30th, 2003, 15:54

Nothing is impossible.

AzNStYleZ

May 30th, 2003, 18:44

sayargh, SNES Emulation IS perfect but im not so sure is 1.2 GHZ really needed to supply good sound?

mightyrocket

May 30th, 2003, 19:03

Snes emulation isn't perfect, because there are still a few games which aren't fully supported, but ontopic: No you don't need 1.2 ghz to have excellent audio for all games: You'll need more. I think the most games will have good sound with dual 3,06 ghz.

Lol, kidding.

On your system you will get perfect sound if you use Nemu. Zelda runs for me without ANY skips.

nephalim

May 30th, 2003, 19:16

Originally posted by mightyrocket
Snes emulation isn't perfect, because there are still a few games which aren't fully supported

I think every single game that isn't supported is due to special chips in the CART that haven't been emulated. This in reality has nothing to do with SNES emulation itself, and the fact that most special chips are emulated perfectly is amazing.

Flash

May 30th, 2003, 21:04

Originally posted by nephalim
If you want absolute perfection then emulation is not for you. Only SNES emulation is anything resembling "perfect."

No. Some SNES games even still not emulated (Top Gear 3000 etc...), some still
buggy

Neo-Geo can be called "perfect emulated" as all of today's games can be emulated without glitches. Same for CPS-1 and CPS-2 (although CPS-2 protection is not emulated, it's cheated)

mightyrocket

May 30th, 2003, 21:06

Yes Commodore64 is emulated perfect too :P

By the way, isn't it going a bit offtopic?

AzNStYleZ

May 31st, 2003, 01:32

i think he meant by resembling perfect games dont have BIG CRACKLY POPPY Sounds..well i dont anyway

Hyper19s

May 31st, 2003, 01:46

I have a crappy computer and id have to say star fox 64
and diddy kong racing :n64: :1964:

Hyper19s

May 31st, 2003, 01:48

also dont you think the system req are to high

Mabey:1964:

schibo

May 31st, 2003, 15:45

Wait for next version of 1964 if you want sound that isn't "CRACKLY POPPY" :)

scotty

May 31st, 2003, 16:38

the next version is always better. Schibo knows his final version is going to be good, I can tell by that last message. Whenever it comes out, we will never know.

ScottJC

May 31st, 2003, 16:58

No crackly sound in the next 1964 eh? sounds good to me.

:1964:

as for the nothing is impossible thing, I guess thats true but perfection in this case is very very difficult :P

Hyper19s

May 31st, 2003, 19:41

:1964: only time will tell

time:1964:

Flash

May 31st, 2003, 23:50

Originally posted by Clements

Lots of people complain of crackly sound, which I have never experienced.
/quote]

And it's strange, but it's good for you

[quote]
You need a fast processor (1.2GHz+) and a modern sound card.

.... And you don't have ( full hardware) sound card, because Avance AC'97 is only a codec, half of sound card (better to say "a small part of...") Only thing it does is converting digital signal to analog and vice versa. But it can't
do signal processing, it requires DSP - digital signal processor and 3D sound (DS3D,A3D,EAX, especially EAX2 and A3D 2-3) requires very powerful signal processor. Vortex2 and SB Live-Audigy (EMU10Kx) DSPs can be compared to Pentium-200.

So when mb manual says "Onboard AC'97 audio, supports DS3D, A3D 1.0, EAX 1.0 blah blah" - it's most outrageous lie, because your granny's SB16 can support 3D sound that way - by software emulation.

In case of cheap onboard AC'97 "sound cards" DSP is emulated by main CPU.
So when very "cpu-hungry" program is running (N64,PSX emulators, MAME, Unreal 2 and rest of modern games) there's no CPU resources left, CPU is loaded up to 98% by game (emulator), so these cracks, ñhirps and other noise
appears.

Solution - to buy hardware sound card
Even cheapest CMI8738 is waay better in all aspects (sound quality, CPU load )
than sole AC'97 codec.

And N64 emulation doesn't have any special sound card requirements :
any card that support DirectSound will work. Old ISA AWE64 or newest Philips Audiophile - all will work ok.

I think it's a bit too early to be looking for perfection considering the relative difficulty and the relatively brief time that emulating the N64 has been viable.

Yep. Some games is still not emulated and audio plugins must polished a bit.

nephalim

June 1st, 2003, 01:25

Hey Flash, can you tell me about my sound card, the ESS Maestro? I'm asking 'cause it's a laptop sound card and non-upgradable, I want to know what i've got...

Flash

June 1st, 2003, 05:04

Originally posted by nephalim
Hey Flash, can you tell me about my sound card, the ESS Maestro? I'm asking 'cause it's a laptop sound card and non-upgradable, I want to know what i've got...

What ESS Maestro do you have ?
ESS Maestro-1, ESS Maestro-2 or ESS Maestro-3 ?

All of them have SB emulation support,
DS3D acceleration, Sensaura 3D sound support and EAX1 support (don't sure about A3D 1.0)

It's hardware card, not only codec.
So not bad for laptop card

AzNStYleZ

June 1st, 2003, 20:22

Originally posted by schibo
Wait for next version of 1964 if you want sound that isn't "CRACKLY POPPY" :)

Is this true? IS IT REALLY TRUE??? :cry:
I JUST CANT WAIT :happy:

mightyrocket

June 1st, 2003, 21:44

Until the next release you can try Nemu. It has got very good sound-quality too.

AzNStYleZ

June 1st, 2003, 23:22

Originally posted by mightyrocket
Until the next release you can try Nemu. It has got very good sound-quality too.

Yeah, i know but ive had a problem w/ nemu when i try to open it says failure to initialize plugins ???? well, ill revert to the other forum for that :D

nephalim

June 2nd, 2003, 08:02

Originally posted by Flash
What ESS Maestro do you have ?
ESS Maestro-1, ESS Maestro-2 or ESS Maestro-3 ?

All of them have SB emulation support,
DS3D acceleration, Sensaura 3D sound support and EAX1 support (don't sure about A3D 1.0)

It's hardware card, not only codec.
So not bad for laptop card

It's an ESS Maestro 3i (listed as ESS Maestro PCI Audio (WDM) in the device manager.)

I bought a top-of-the-line laptop, so even though I got the crappy video at least I have good sound. I am wondering because I never had these "crackling popping" problems everyone mentions...just choppy audio if it gets slow. Raising the buffer fixes nearly all sound problems.

EddyB43

June 2nd, 2003, 10:57

If we're going to get silly about "perfection", you should note that even Mario 64 isn't perfect. The graphical "morph" effect the game uses (e.g. the Princess Toadstool picture becoming Bowser in the first boss corridor) is not supported in any emulator or plugin.

SNES emulation is about as far as it's going to get. Apart from some unemulated special chips (they have no documentation on the DSPs, and the DSP-1 is partial enough so Mario Kart and Pilotwings works), there are some timing issues in some lesser known games. Problem is, if they make fixes for those, it could easily break other games.

marioshroom

June 2nd, 2003, 10:59

i am have a very good emulation for many games. only of the video for dr. mario is not the best in any plugin/emu. this is sad for to play with a party and four controllers, dr. mario is a best game at this. but mario cart and others are the very fun. only of having a really huge monitor is what i'm missing the most.

AzNStYleZ

June 2nd, 2003, 18:29

Originally posted by EddyB43
If we're going to get silly about "perfection", you should note that even Mario 64 isn't perfect. The graphical "morph" effect the game uses (e.g. the Princess Toadstool picture becoming Bowser in the first boss corridor) is not supported in any emulator or plugin.

SNES emulation is about as far as it's going to get. Apart from some unemulated special chips (they have no documentation on the DSPs, and the DSP-1 is partial enough so Mario Kart and Pilotwings works), there are some timing issues in some lesser known games. Problem is, if they make fixes for those, it could easily break other games.

Yes, but SNES emulation is closer to perfection then any other emulation other than GB and handheld emulation, because it supports ALMOST every game u just have to look at it the right way

petronius79

June 6th, 2003, 00:46

Originally posted by AzNStYleZ
Yes, but SNES emulation is closer to perfection then any other emulation other than GB and handheld emulation, because it supports ALMOST every game u just have to look at it the right way

no matter how perfect the emulation is, even if it is a direct port to PC, nothing compares to the analogue composite TV signal of the old consoles and the tv sound or the arcade.

even when I play my favourite games through emulation I feel that something is missing, even in the perfect neo geo games.

I only wonder how I managed to tolerate the tiny screen of the Game Boy for so many years when I was a kid. I tried recently to play a game on the Gameboy after so many years and my eyes squinted.

Engeljaeger

June 6th, 2003, 15:47

I think the difficulty with N64-emulation is the oddness of that console....that every game needs special preferences AFAIK...
And think about it...not even the NES is perfectly emulated... ;)

EddyB43

June 6th, 2003, 17:26

Well that's because the NES has a nasty setup with it's mappers. How many did you need Nintendo? :blink:

AzNStYleZ

June 11th, 2003, 09:18

Originally posted by petronius79
no matter how perfect the emulation is, even if it is a direct port to PC, nothing compares to the analogue composite TV signal of the old consoles and the tv sound or the arcade.

even when I play my favourite games through emulation I feel that something is missing, even in the perfect neo geo games.

I only wonder how I managed to tolerate the tiny screen of the Game Boy for so many years when I was a kid. I tried recently to play a game on the Gameboy after so many years and my eyes squinted.

Well, who plays NES nowadays i mean the damn system is so played out :doh: n well SNES ppl still play because of final fantasy and junk but when u said something is missing i think it was the feel of the controller/gameboy in ur hand :D

Engeljaeger

June 11th, 2003, 14:12

Hey, I still play NES a lot :P
There are 3 Final Fantasies on the NES, you know ;)

aprentice

June 11th, 2003, 18:23

Originally posted by AzNStYleZ
Well, who plays NES nowadays i mean the damn system is so played out :doh: n well SNES ppl still play because of final fantasy and junk but when u said something is missing i think it was the feel of the controller/gameboy in ur hand :D

speak for yourself son. I have the nes console itself, and I still play it, recently more than ever =p
2 player nes games rock!

Doomulation

June 11th, 2003, 21:46

I still play old games on nes emulators! (Most because games are hard to get for it :p)
So yeah...uh, speak for yourself! :D
Retro will never die!

AzNStYleZ

June 13th, 2003, 00:24

lol anyone for ninja turtles? THEY RULE

Engeljaeger

June 13th, 2003, 00:53

Turtles in Time on SNES with two playsers is still fun as hell...
Well...I guess we're a bit off topic ;)

ScottJC

June 13th, 2003, 04:56

Offtopic too:
I like tales of phantasia, waiting so paitently for star ocean, been waiting for about 2-3 years now :D

Engeljaeger

June 13th, 2003, 14:24

Yeah...me too...Dejap had a bad crash and lost almost everything...that's why they haven't finished the translation yet...:doh:

scotty

June 13th, 2003, 19:49

I guess Im going off topic too, but Star Ocean is something I have been waiting for with DeJap, got a partial translation, just waiting for the menus

For NES emulation, it has gotten better, now that mapper 5 is not a real problem like it was earlier in its stages, I still play the Megaman series, man like there are 6 Megamans for NES, The CastleVaina series is now perfect as I said now that mapper 5 is up, I dont get who designed the mapper system, but I never did understand why Castlevania 3 is on mapper 5.

AzNStYleZ

June 23rd, 2003, 02:32

Off topic: Isnt star ocean already translated? and u dont really need the menus, u can figure it out in time :D

On topic: perfection on n64 emulation will probably never happen < ive come to that conclusion because itd either be too fast or too slow

karth95

June 23rd, 2003, 03:36

I disagree. With rice's new plugin in directx mode, using pj64, I've come to religion. It's so close to perfect that it's hard to catch what's wrong.

ScottJC

June 23rd, 2003, 06:47

i have lots of problems with rices plugin, its no where near perfect (no offence)

Clements

June 23rd, 2003, 14:24

You could say Mickey's Speedway USA is perfect with Jabo's plugin, if you enable self rendered textures. The rippling is perfectly emulated at the cost of the frame rate dropping to 3fps at those ripply bits. Perfection can be hardware limited therefore. The same goes for that video screen in Mario Kart 64.

Anyhoo, Star Ocean's script has been completely translated but without localisation and the menus/item names. The final translation will be released sometime this year.

karth95

June 24th, 2003, 15:55

Sayargh, it may not be perfect, but it has a LOT of the elements that will make it VERY close. I'm not sure what emulator you are playing with, but I can tell you that between PJ64, and 1964, with Rice's, TR64 opengl, and Jabo's, almost every game has everything working right, in at least one combination. This is good enough for me. In the future, when 1964 gets it's next update, and rice and icepir8 keep developing their plugins, I'm sure the features will keep showing up.

Engeljaeger

June 24th, 2003, 16:12

Hm...by the way...has there been any note or clue when the new 1964 is going to be released...?
This is no release request :P ...I only want to know if something has been said before ;)

karth95

June 24th, 2003, 16:25

In all honesty, I've never seen a release date, ever. Release dates are a tool of the marketing people (which in this case is the public) to get people to devote lots of time and energy getting hyped for the new product, and sadly, some people in the world believe that the release, not the product, is what is important. In this case, I'd much rather have an excellent product instead of a .83, and not have a release date. That being said....

Last thing I remember anyone saying: When it's ready.